Article on DRM illustrates why I and others are so concerned.
#1
Sun, 06/16/2013 - 14:04
Article on DRM illustrates why I and others are so concerned.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9926476-7.html
This article shows how not only the industry can simply choose at any time to separate you from your digital property but how Microsoft has already done so with it's music service. Why then is it so hard for everyone to agree that the Xbox One could go down this same road?
Which is crazier? Wanting to own the games you buy, or completely ignoring the fact that this has been done before and could easily be done again?
I've never bought to own a game. There ara terms and rights that must be abided by with a game. This is not new.
If I truly did own a game then I could be free to copy and sell it for profit, or alter its code and sell it for profit. I think its crazy to think you own an Xbox 360/PS3 game, instead of a license to use it.
I agree that services have terms that must be agreed upon and that this is nowhere close to new, and nowhere close to a Microsoft thing alone.
Its something to consider, but not something I'm worried about or shocked to hear about.
Ever bought a PC MMO and had the game shut down and become unplayable, losing everything you paid for, played and earned, and content bought for it?
Its really nothing new to the world, but I'm sure some people haven't heard of it before and this might be new to them.
I just opened the little physical paper manual for Defiance on Xbox 360. Hey guess what, this kind of stuff is outlined in their EULA written there. Its not new, its nothing to be alarmed about, and its not something Microsoft does alone. It clearly says it grants you a license.
Anyways, I look forward to responding to more "omg did you know..." and "what if..." threads on this site about Xbox One, regardless of if it specifically is about just that console, very soon.
I own every music CD and LP I have ever bought, they are mine, take them from me without my permission and you are stealing from me, not the artist or the publisher, me. This does not mean I have the right to copy them and sell them. That is just silly. No I don't like this idea that I am renting, licensing or any other fancy way of calling not owning what you buy for personal use. It is nothing to do with making thing better for the consumer...That is my opinion, I am entitled to it. My opinion will of course make no difference but it should just be accepted as such and not picked away at...
Great article. Agree completely.
Owning a music CD is different than owning the music. You bought it, so you can play that CD wherever it works, your car, your computer, your boombox or whatever. That doesn't mean you own the music - it means you own the disc and have the right to listen to them on that disc.
Owning a game disc is different than owning the game. You bought the disc, so you can play that game whereever it works. That doesn't mean you own the game - it means you have the right to play it.
I mean, we've heard of music licenses and read why artists and such disappear from music services and such. We've heard of game licenses and same thing.
I might worry if Microsoft was in danger of folding as a company, but Sony's the one in danger of that, not Microsoft.
/shrug
As it happens I own some of the music too, but that is an aside. My point was I am entitled to have the opinion without someone picking at it, knowing full well you would pick at it. And the right to play it was the point! The dismissive shrug at the end? Nice.
again, man? really? we do not need any more of these threads.
Concern is fine. Concern is healthy. Too much concern makes you an alarmist.
I'm not sure if it was read, or read and ignored, but I thought I had quoted Microsoft in these forums earlier as having said if you get banned you can still play your Xbox One games.
I'd find it again, but let's be honest - is there any point in trying to stop the fright train?
Here is a new article with a video link of what I said being confirmed.
Please watch it so we can (hopefully) reduce the fear mongering around here.
http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/16/banned-xbox-one-accounts-will-retain-a...
If such a highly unlikely theory is being factored into a persons console buying decision, then they should absolutely not purchase a PS4.
Sony as a company has lost billions of dollars for years - they haven't been profitable in half a decade. They stayed afloat this year by selling their headquarters in New York, laying off over 10,000 employees, selling a massive office building in Tokyo, and cutting divisions.
Most of Sony is unprofitable, very few divisions actually make money. One of the few areas that actually makes them money is gaming. The rest of Sony pulls it down.
If Sony does collapse there won't be new games coming for their system, and they won't be able to host PSN servers for matchmaking or even signing in. It'll still play games offline of course.
Microsoft is very profitable, including their entertainment division. That division has seen tremendous growth even in the last year, while Sony's similar area saw a decline.
Microsoft's entertainment division is only a very, very small part of the company as a whole. If Xbox as an entire brand suddenly failed completely, it would have a minimal effect on Microsoft.
To summarize, if you are worried about a company shutting down or losing access to servers to the point where it is affecting your console buying decisions, do not buy a PS4. Xbox One is in far better position with Microsoft.
I think Autarch likes to argue lol
I won't argue with that ;)
Major Nelson brings up a good point about this....the console isn't even out yet. If Steam has a way to ensure that you will retain access to all of your game purchases when they shut their doors, which they state that they do, then Microsoft....being a helluva lot bigger than Valve, will more than likely have the same checks in place or at least something similar, if not better.
Have they said yet? No. But I'm sure it will be addressed at some point, simply because of all the negative PR they have to wade through now.
If banned people retain access to their content, then it's a pretty fair bet that in 2020 or whenever the next next gen hits....Microsoft will have something in place. They did say also they are supporting the Xbox 360 until 2017 at least right?
Throwing people who enjoy playing old games on old consoles under the table simply because a few people don't is not the way to go about it. I think the main argument here is what will happen 10-15 years from now. Will m$ shut down the servers for the xbone? If they do, and many games are using the cloud computing, where does that leave the gamers who want to go back and play Halo 5 & 6? Will m$ transistion the xbone servers onto the xbox two (or whatever they call their next console)? They can't simply shut down the servers and expect people to play offline. And you can't really upgrade your hardware so it can account for the cloud computing loss. Now while these issues are years away, they are something to think about. I wouldn't like it if I lost the ability to play many games because of servers being shut down.
As far as either company going belly up, I highly doubt it. M$ won't and Sony won't (no matter what certain people say). Japan won't let them. But let's say they both do. Which console would you still be able to play games offline? ;)
From a business point of view, there's a serious flaw in this arguement right here.
"Throwing people who enjoy playing old games on old consoles under the table simply because a few people don't is not the way to go about it."
The business model and information collected will show that the "few" are the people coveting their "old" tech. Mainstream is into the "new, bigger, better, faster, prettier" etc. And your larger comapnies will pursue this first and foremost, and smaller designers/groups will pop up and pander to the smaller "niche" groups for income as the competition isn't as extreme.
I'm not making any kind of judgement on who's more important, or who's feelings or wants are more justified. Simply put, when you say follow the money, that's exactly what any company wanting to stay in business does. The reason backwards compatibility is so rare is because there's no profit in it.
A simply fact is most of these newer games, when they really figure out how to maximize this "cloud" computing, and they haven't yet, the games will most likely suck butt if they aren't connected to it anyway.
I wasn't stating that we need to stay in this generation and not advance technologically. I was stating that there are people out there who enjoy revisiting the older tech. In fact, I'm willing to bet that a large percentage of the people who do enjoy the old tech are also big buyers of the new tech. I fall into that category.
Also, I never said the xbone had to include backwards compatibility (nor do its predecessors). From a business and engineering standpoint, I understand why they don't. My concern is the bolded part of your quote. Every generation of consoles have games that define them. For this generation, the Mass Effect series defined it for me. Let's say ME 2 & 3 took advantage of the cloud computing. Years down the road, when I want to revisit both those games, there's a possibility I can't because m$ shut down those cloud servers. For people like me who enjoy replaying older games, this is a concern that I'm voicing.
Couple things come to mind on this, one is that if the could servers are shut down I am guessing that would most likely mean all the live servers themselves are being shut down. If that doesn happen...most likely MS itself would be in the gutter and I'm guessing the economic downfall of that would be more of a worry then I can no longer play any games at that point...though that is a guess. Second...as for older games...no doubt at somepoint someone will come up with an emulator system of some type just like they have for old nes, atari, ect. Again...that is a guess, but at somepoint I'm sure it will happen.
Glad to hear Japan won't let Microsoft and Sony go belly up.
It's more a question of how you look at your library of games I suppose. I buy most of my games on Steam. Obviously this model is extremely close to Steams, and any small differences are negligible at best. Having said that, I don't much care about games that are out dated, old, or out of style.
I look at my games like I look at movies. I get my entertainment out of them and then move on the to next. If you're this type of gamer, then the DMR won't be a factor for you. If you still fire up your copy of Halo CE or Crimson Skys, then its possible (and even then highly unlikely) that you might run into a DRM issue. If that's the case, don't buy the Xbox One.
Maybe it's because Im an MMO player and a PC player that I'm so used to this. I know that even after 5 years of playing WoW, they can shut off their servers and my copy will be useless to play from that point foward. However, 5 years of entertainment for $60 bucks is more then enough for me.
I think the issue here is making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's really more about what type of gamer you are. Do you find yourself dipping back into your old library? Buy a PS4. Don't care about that 6 year old game, maybe Xbox One is perfect for you.
The reality is, backwards compatibily has become a part of DRM as well. If they stop making the Xbox 360 and yours breaks, what good is your disc? Or how about those Lazer Discs from back in the day? Sure you have the copy, but at some point technology out grows the medium. Either way, make the choice that is best for you and don't worry about everyone else.
The Cloud, which I barely understand, is where all computing and video games are going. Even Sony is touting the cloud of some sort. People who are concerned about the Cloud disappearing for games that rely on it, should not buy that type of game. It seems the fight isn't against DRM as much as it is against WAN connectivity.
There are many things in my life that I fondly look back on but the actual video games is not one of them. That's temporal junk. The old stuff I would really like to revisit are my boys when they were little and hold their hands again. Maybe even see the look on their faces when they were the first on the street to get a SNES or how my one year old would belly laugh when a Super Mario level finished. That's the good stuff. Not the game.
These days I look forward to a day when we are all playing the same game again.
Amen to that
Says the guy that's been nuts-deep in MMORPG.
But no, the sentiment is nice.
Well that's kinda the point right? There's nothing else to play.
Sure, but that really isn't the point of my example.
The content you already purshased is now usless until you buy a new device to play it on as well as re-purchase that same content you already had.
Think of it this way, while backwards compatibility isn't currently offereed we saw Microsoft allow emulated versions of its previous Xbox titles on the 360. This follows the same exmaple as moving content from one device to another not unlike Lazer disc to DVD, DVD to Blue-ray. It's also with a fairly acceptible span of time.
Again, if this is a big deal to you than don't buy the Xbox One. However given the track record of previous relased Xbox titles on the Xbox 360 I don't see why anyone would worry about the future of their games.
Also, lets not forget that those copies of Halo 2 are basically unplayable since they shut off the MP servers. Sure you can play campain, but lets face it; the majority of players want it for MP. Bottom line is, with the nature of games today (this includes Sony) servers WILL eventually be shut down. Sony had to do the same thing with Socom as well almost all MP type games. I suppose an argument can be made for single player, but we haven't even had enough time for Microsoft to explore this side of it.
Dixon said it best.
At least we have a choice.