when i first notiiced this phenomenom i just thought i had smoked to much herb......but further experementation has convinced that something is there...and it has nothing to do with normal physics...using this technique in a real car is likely to get you killed
it doesn't seem to matter how big a "saw" you make...it seems to me that just crossing the center triggers it.....since i've started using this technique to save an overly loose car I don't have any tank slappers anymore....the car always staightens right up and i can apply power quicker than i would have been able to otherwise.
the action required is so quick that it seems to me that it was designed to help controller users "gather it up" after getting loose....but like i said it works with a wheel too
i only play in simulation mode and i couldn't say what else is there in "normal" mode....i've never even tried it.
The "sawing" is very valid when you've stepped over the threshold. It's the best technique for getting back your static friction without dropping speed to do it.
The last conclusion I came to is also extremely important if you want to go fast. If you're a wheel user stop moving the wheel so much! Turn into the corner, and when you feel your turning arc is good then stop moving the wheel. This allows the car to "take a set", which is a fancy term for "stop shifting weight". Every time you move the wheel you're shifting weight in the car, and upsetting the balance. If you need to correct the attitude of the car you're better off doing it with throttle. If you're in a car with a lot of power it's better to give an additional shot of power, rather than lift off the throttle, in order to start rotating the car into the corner better. If you're in FWD or a car without enough power to break the rear wheels loose you'll need to blip the throttle off to create some off throttle over steer to get the same effect. Another technique I've had good results with in a FWD car is to slightly over rotate the corner entry, and then just power out of the corner.
All my racing has really improved over the last week, but my A class racing has improved significantly. I have almost stopped thinking about not moving the wheel now. Not quite there, but it's close.
These are advanced techniques and require very good throttle control to master so don't expect awesome results the first time you try them.
Lol i prefer alien over machine but that's just me.
I've been working with a couple of the tuners in this group and some other groups and I see a big difference in how the cars drive when using a wheel created tune. I get massive MASSIVE mid corner understeer with ALL wheel tunes. Its usually the opposite when I send someone else a tune. The words "difficult" and "loose" are often heard.
I think it may be the difference in driving habits more than what is being used that really determines who is faster. That and the vast differences between builds of the same cars. Almost all of my cars are built for peak grip where as most people will go for more power. But then again there are some cars that do both really really well.
As far as sawing goes I do it all the time. My joystick on the controller is starting to wear because of it.
Lol i prefer alien over machine but that's just me. I've been working with a couple of the tuners in this group and some other groups and I see a big difference in how the cars drive when using a wheel created tune. I get massive MASSIVE mid corner understeer with ALL wheel tunes. Its usually the opposite when I send someone else a tune. The words "difficult" and "loose" are often heard. I think it may be the difference in driving habits more than what is being used that really determines who is faster. That and the vast differences between builds of the same cars. Almost all of my cars are built for peak grip where as most people will go for more power. But then again there are some cars that do both really really well. As far as sawing goes I do it all the time. My joystick on the controller is starting to wear because of it.
Wow... A lot of posts on this topic in a relatively short period. :) I apologize, I have not gone through and read through every post. If I rehash something, just ignore it.
Most of you know I use the controller in situations where I need to be in top form. I've switch to mostly using the wheel, but I still kind of suck with it to be completely honest. It is however, very fun. There's a fine line between fun from the experience and frustration... I refuse to use the wheel with the steering, braking and traction assists. Despite the simulation steering having issues with the Fanatec wheel, it still feels the most realistic. I guess I like the apparent challenge or maybe I'm just masochistic.
The single reason I am faster with the controller is this... I can make tiny, precise movements in fractions of a second using the sticks and the triggers. I personally cannot make those same movements with the wheel at least, not without feeling like I will break the wheel. When I pay attention to what my fingers and thumbs are doing, I can actually feel these tiny movements. I do move lock to lock when steering, I'm literally moving my thumb exactly to the point it needs to be when steering and stopping. If an adjustment needs to be made, I make the slightest adjustment, but it's not fluid, it's almost instant. The other thing is matching revs when downshifting... I'm just not that good at it with the wheel and H shifter. On the controller, I don't even have to think about it.
That being said, I know several people who are excellent tuners as well as excellent drivers who actually ended up being faster after switching over to the wheel. It didn't happen immediately, but it did happen. I have no idea how, I haven't been able to mange it myself.
I will not say that I've driven more in the game than anyone here, I have no idea, espeically in FM4. However, I can say that in my personal experience, I have seen no difference in grip level between the wheel and controller. There may be some things happening here that make it seem as such though... It would be relatively easy to test. Just turn on TCS and ABS then do some straight line runs with the controller then with the wheel. Use full throttle and full brake, let the game manage everything else. Record the results.
when i first notiiced this phenomenom i just thought i had smoked to much herb......but further experementation has convinced that something is there...and it has nothing to do with normal physics...using this technique in a real car is likely to get you killed
it doesn't seem to matter how big a "saw" you make...it seems to me that just crossing the center triggers it.....since i've started using this technique to save an overly loose car I don't have any tank slappers anymore....the car always staightens right up and i can apply power quicker than i would have been able to otherwise.
the action required is so quick that it seems to me that it was designed to help controller users "gather it up" after getting loose....but like i said it works with a wheel too
i only play in simulation mode and i couldn't say what else is there in "normal" mode....i've never even tried it.
Looks like the saw technique is valid in real life racing...
Watching the Australian Grand Prix qualifying and seemed to be a few instances of drivers of doing this.
Perhaps the clearest example, that I saw
, was with Michael Schumacher (BBC converage).
Around 4:45 of Q2 he is clearly performing a number of quick, deep flicks of the wheel to recover from a slide on the last corner.
If it works for F1 drivers... very interesting
I'm giving you gold Fred.
The "sawing" is very valid when you've stepped over the threshold. It's the best technique for getting back your static friction without dropping speed to do it.
The last conclusion I came to is also extremely important if you want to go fast. If you're a wheel user stop moving the wheel so much! Turn into the corner, and when you feel your turning arc is good then stop moving the wheel. This allows the car to "take a set", which is a fancy term for "stop shifting weight". Every time you move the wheel you're shifting weight in the car, and upsetting the balance. If you need to correct the attitude of the car you're better off doing it with throttle. If you're in a car with a lot of power it's better to give an additional shot of power, rather than lift off the throttle, in order to start rotating the car into the corner better. If you're in FWD or a car without enough power to break the rear wheels loose you'll need to blip the throttle off to create some off throttle over steer to get the same effect. Another technique I've had good results with in a FWD car is to slightly over rotate the corner entry, and then just power out of the corner.
All my racing has really improved over the last week, but my A class racing has improved significantly. I have almost stopped thinking about not moving the wheel now. Not quite there, but it's close.
These are advanced techniques and require very good throttle control to master so don't expect awesome results the first time you try them.
Thats why iam on my 4th in 2 years.
Wow... A lot of posts on this topic in a relatively short period. :) I apologize, I have not gone through and read through every post. If I rehash something, just ignore it.
Most of you know I use the controller in situations where I need to be in top form. I've switch to mostly using the wheel, but I still kind of suck with it to be completely honest. It is however, very fun. There's a fine line between fun from the experience and frustration... I refuse to use the wheel with the steering, braking and traction assists. Despite the simulation steering having issues with the Fanatec wheel, it still feels the most realistic. I guess I like the apparent challenge or maybe I'm just masochistic.
The single reason I am faster with the controller is this... I can make tiny, precise movements in fractions of a second using the sticks and the triggers. I personally cannot make those same movements with the wheel at least, not without feeling like I will break the wheel. When I pay attention to what my fingers and thumbs are doing, I can actually feel these tiny movements. I do move lock to lock when steering, I'm literally moving my thumb exactly to the point it needs to be when steering and stopping. If an adjustment needs to be made, I make the slightest adjustment, but it's not fluid, it's almost instant. The other thing is matching revs when downshifting... I'm just not that good at it with the wheel and H shifter. On the controller, I don't even have to think about it.
That being said, I know several people who are excellent tuners as well as excellent drivers who actually ended up being faster after switching over to the wheel. It didn't happen immediately, but it did happen. I have no idea how, I haven't been able to mange it myself.
I will not say that I've driven more in the game than anyone here, I have no idea, espeically in FM4. However, I can say that in my personal experience, I have seen no difference in grip level between the wheel and controller. There may be some things happening here that make it seem as such though... It would be relatively easy to test. Just turn on TCS and ABS then do some straight line runs with the controller then with the wheel. Use full throttle and full brake, let the game manage everything else. Record the results.
p.s. Welcome superstocker :)