wow....i too didn't mean to stir the pot and maybe my explanation was over simplified....
.but the fact remains that there is a steering assist with the controller even on simulation, that isn't present on the wheel. All you have to do is go to a wide open place like benchmark and try a few turns at different speeds with both......it quickly becomes apparent that the contoller will only go as far as the max slip angle (grip) of the tires....but with a wheel you can go past that point and the car plows like a dump truck.
it's also very apparent when watching replay's who is using what........the controller user is jerking his way down the straight (which should slow him down but doesn't.....another aid?) and then get silky smooth though the corner. The wheel user is smooth down the straights and i have to admit the wheel has a big advantage on sweepers and oval tracks........but on the slow tight turns i think the controller has the advantage by not being able to go past that point of max grip....and that's most of the turns of any track
top times are achievable with either......but how many of those top times with a controller wouldn't be there without that assist?
...it quickly becomes apparent that the contoller will only go as far as the max slip angle (grip) of the tires....but with a wheel you can go past that point and the car plows like a dump truck...
Wow--that might explain why sometimes I'll give feedback to a tuner about an understeering tune and the tuner doesn't know what I'm talking about because he uses a controller! I've played with some tunes that go from tractor ploughing severe understeer to instant tank slapping oversteer with just slight counter steering and throttle. Interesting...
My biggest complaint about controller users, and it's not their fault so please don't get in a hissy, is the constant tire smoke and screeching going around sweepers. It is a tad distracting. Another thing T10 should address. I noticed it's not all controller users though.
My biggest complaint about controller users, and it's not their fault so please don't get in a hissy, is the constant tire smoke and screeching going around sweepers. It is a tad distracting. Another thing T10 should address. I noticed it's not all controller users though.
My biggest complaint about controller users, and it's not their fault so please don't get in a hissy, is the constant tire smoke and screeching going around sweepers. It is a tad distracting. Another thing T10 should address. I noticed it's not all controller users though.
but, but, but, that's where the fun is!
yes, can be fun I agree but does the person actually driving hear all that tire screeching?
or is it only one or more of the other online racers?
and is the cause a mismatch in physics calcs caused by lag or is something else going on?
I fear it is too early in the day for these deep questions, need to get a coffee and then ponder this later
I have no problem with controller users, and whatever aid they get in-game is offset by the advantages that come with the wheel. I used a controller for GT1, GT2, GT3, GT4, Forza and Forza 2, and switched to the wheel and pedals just before the release of Forza 3. I never looked back, but thats just me. Some of the fast guys are controller users, some are wheel users. For me its a question of immersion. That matters to me more than speed.
Controller/wheel faster/slower who cares!
With enough time spent on either you will be just as fast.
There's 2 main factors to the fastest laps......
1 the use of the braking line
2. Your natural born ability to play the game and learn the tracks
Yes I said it lol
All I know is I can be driving along and then I start hearing the screaching of a fast controller driver coming up on me. It get's louder and louder and it is distracting as hell, lol. Then, they get past me and I feel like I am playing Spy Hunter and they've activated the smoke screen. Again, it is not all controller users, which I find strange.
I am easily distracted (my fault) so I makes me lose my concentration. I put it up their with certain player's mics that are so sensitive you can hear their TV or shifting when they use a H shifter. I have turned my headset down all the way in some races.
Wow, I haven't been on these forums in a couple of days and this topic is at 8 pages already. I always love to get involved in these debates.
Here is my perspective. I have been using a wheel to play racing games for over 15 years. I have never played Forza with a controller and that includes the original Forza on the original Xbox. I had a Fanatec wheel for the original Xbox and it worked great.
I couldn't do one lap at any track with a controller without constantly banging the walls. I don't know what is faster and I don't care because you can only have my wheel when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. Even if it is proven beyond any doubt that a controller is faster, I will never make the switch.
I believe there are actually 3 types of racers. Controller users, Wheel users, and Aliens. TrackAssassin (controller) and Fantomas (wheel) both fall in the Alien category so there is the proof that the controller and wheel users have already mated and those 2 are the Alien offspring produced.
TrackAssassin has a point about racing lines and skill. Normally when watching a replay or spectating mode in a race I can pick out the wheel and controller users easily. I joined a race in progress recently so I decided to spectate. I was switching around to the different drivers and guessing whether they were using a wheel or controller and was right on everyone except TrackAssassin. He is unbelievably smooth with a controller. I have never seen a controller user make such smooth turning motions, even on the straights. The normal twitching tires which normally gives away a controller use immediately wasn't there at all. Just smooth fluid motion just like you would see with a wheel. And smooth is fast so that must explain some of his speed (but he is still an Alien).
To summarize, I use a wheel because I like to drive fast. I can't legally drive fast on public roads and I can't afford to go to a real race track. So the closest I can get is driving fast in a racing game. And the only way it feels right to me is if I'm using a steering wheel and pedals. I also like to have a beer or 3 now and then while I'm driving fast which I can't do on public roads or a race track, so that's another bonus of racing games.
He he, spot on Troy, Tourni is another controller alien and as smooth as silk. I must hunt out one of Tracks ghosts and have a look at his telemetry. Another thing that marks out the good racers is consistency, be it wheel or controller. If you can lap close to your best time after time you will always be there to jump on a mistake by the guy ahead.
I have been playing with the controller just to see what happened...result? total disaster, can't get close to my wheel times. So no advantage for me then
As far as I'm concerned the whole thread went in a completely different direction than intended, and I'm going to continue to present my findings without commenting on why people choose what they choose. It's not a religion, and I'm not trying to convert anyone.
For those interested in the empirical data:
After running 5 laps, in the Weismann, on Nurburgring GP using the controller last night I was able to come within 8/10ths of a second of my PB.
I believe I'm over slowing for corners now because my turn in is much tighter than anticipated. I can see I'm going to apex far to early so I relax the steering to take a wider arc. I am still far too ham fisted when trying to correct the steering angle, and I over straighten. I also felt that the same assist that keeps the car from getting sloppy with sloppy inputs was a hinderance to making fine adjustments. I can see that getting the correct entry speed in the first place would go a long way towards better cornering.
My initial thoughts on correcting steering angle mid corner is that the wheel has much finer control here, and is easier to do. Entry speed and turn-in needs to be more accurate for the controller to reduce the need for subtle corrections.
I have seen that some controller users have extentions on their joysick that must help that fine control.
I would guess that it would only help going in one direction. Once you needed to correct your course, then the system takes control to an extent, and doesn't let you turn back in very quickly.
Not altering your steering lock once you commit to the corner is a key element of controller driving. For fine tuning the angle of the car it seems you're better off using the throttle to steer. With a wheel the steering is much finer so you can unwind or wind the wheel slowly for fine correction.
I'm thinking to learn how to throttle steer on the controller would likely translate to the wheel very nicely, but it's a skill that I haven't worked on a lot. This exercise has enlightened me where improvements can be made in my own driving with the wheel.
I have seen that some controller users have extentions on their joysick that must help that fine control.
I would guess that it would only help going in one direction. Once you needed to correct your course, then the system takes control to an extent, and doesn't let you turn back in very quickly.
Not altering your steering lock once you commit to the corner is a key element of controller driving. For fine tuning the angle of the car it seems you're better off using the throttle to steer. With a wheel the steering is much finer so you can unwind or wind the wheel slowly for fine correction.
I'm thinking to learn how to throttle steer on the controller would likely translate to the wheel very nicely, but it's a skill that I haven't worked on a lot. This exercise has enlightened me where improvements can be made in my own driving with the wheel.
So, to be clear, the controller is an advantage for the wheel? I'd swear Parcells is in here somewhere!
I have seen that some controller users have extentions on their joysick that must help that fine control.
I would guess that it would only help going in one direction. Once you needed to correct your course, then the system takes control to an extent, and doesn't let you turn back in very quickly.
Not altering your steering lock once you commit to the corner is a key element of controller driving. For fine tuning the angle of the car it seems you're better off using the throttle to steer. With a wheel the steering is much finer so you can unwind or wind the wheel slowly for fine correction.
I'm thinking to learn how to throttle steer on the controller would likely translate to the wheel very nicely, but it's a skill that I haven't worked on a lot. This exercise has enlightened me where improvements can be made in my own driving with the wheel.
So, to be clear, the controller is an advantage for the wheel? I'd swear Parcells is in here somewhere!
That's why I've always maintained that while I'm an excellent student, I'm a poor teacher
The techniques you would need to work on to be good with the controller, aren't necessarily techniques that I work on while using the wheel. If I did work on them it would be a new bag of tricks that I'm not currently using very much, and that would make me a better driver.
I don't think it's enough to say "some people are good with controllers, while some are good with wheel", and then walk around in a blind fog. I need to know why? What is the controller better at? What are it's failings?
This leads to the question is the controller actually better or does it require you to learn better techniques in order to be fast? Is fine tuning the cars attitude better done through throttle steering, which you need to do on the controller because of it's ham fisted steering, than it is through slight adjustments of the wheel?
No doubt you have thought of this already - but you could get more insight on the theory that throttle steering is more important whe using the controller by comparing replays with the telemetry turned on of similar timed laps ran by controller and wheel users, this should show where/if the controller users are generally steering more on the throttle.
My sense, as a controller user (yes, I admit it - my name is Simon, and I am a controller user) is that I make a lot of minor steering adjustments through adjusting the throttle rather than the joystick, although I have not really thought about it before you suggested the idea.
No doubt you have thought of this already - but you could get more insight on the theory that throttle steering is more important whe using the controller by comparing replays with the telemetry turned on of similar timed laps ran by controller and wheel users, this should show where/if the controller users are generally steering more on the throttle.
My sense, as a controller user (yes, I admit it - my name is Simon, and I am a controller user) is that I make a lot of minor steering adjustments through adjusting the throttle rather than the joystick, although I have not really thought about it before you suggested the idea.
No judgement here Simon, you're safe among friends
I'm only trying to make discoveries that everyone can make use of to become better regardless of input choice.
Other controller users, that shall remain nameless, have also confirmed that throttle steering is the way they make minor adjustments.
I have said this countless times in countless threads on countless boards (including here) since FM1. Lift Off Throttle Over Steer.
I tune my cars with this in mind all the time. It helps re-point the car a bit to compensate for my driving with the controller. It is much better than trying to compensate with the thumbstick for minor corrections. The added side benefit sometimes is forced speed corrections for faster entries to some turns while gaining a better entry angle (sweepers come to mind like Maple Valley).
LOTOS is normally better than jerky controller movements.
As a wheel user, LOTOS really throws me off. I end up sawing the wheel to correct the entry angle. :( It is a lot easier to deal with understeer on the wheel for me.
As a wheel user, LOTOS really throws me off. I end up sawing the wheel to correct the entry angle. :( It is a lot easier to deal with understeer on the wheel for me.
A lot of the controller users that are throttle steering are doing it without the LO part as well. This is why they prefer a loose car that has more power than available grip. If you need more rotation give it an extra squirt of power.
When driving the same car, the only kind of car I can match Tourni with is a FWD. Giving that extra shot of power in an FWD doesn't help it rotate, so you have to use the LO to get the car to rotate in. This is the equalizer when you don't have the talent to rotate with power yet. Knowing this, I'll be working on drills to try and build muscle memory to execute the technique properly.
My tunes are indicating I'm getting there (Tourni doesn't complain about understeer anymore), but still need work.
this is why tunes differ so much from wheel to controller.....it's a rare tune that's suitable for both
another thing I've noticed is some kind of auto correction happening whenever you cross the center deadzone 3 times quickly no matter how sidways you get the car. It has to be a pretty quick flick and i've found the car will straighten up magically without the tank slappers you get when you try to drive it out. Easier to do with a controller but works on a wheel too.
this is why tunes differ so much from wheel to controller.....it's a rare tune that's suitable for both
another thing I've noticed is some kind of auto correction happening whenever you cross the center deadzone 3 times quickly no matter how sidways you get the car. It has to be a pretty quick flick and i've found the car will straighten up magically without the tank slappers you get when you try to drive it out. Easier to do with a controller but works on a wheel too.
This must be what I see in some of Fantomas' videos and also a bunch of others of fast guys on wheels in Forza on YouTube. When they accelerate out of a corner, sometimes they saw the wheel very quickly.
this is why tunes differ so much from wheel to controller.....it's a rare tune that's suitable for both
another thing I've noticed is some kind of auto correction happening whenever you cross the center deadzone 3 times quickly no matter how sidways you get the car. It has to be a pretty quick flick and i've found the car will straighten up magically without the tank slappers you get when you try to drive it out. Easier to do with a controller but works on a wheel too.
This must be what I see in some of Fantomas' videos and also a bunch of others of fast guys on wheels in Forza on YouTube. When they accelerate out of a corner, sometimes they saw the wheel very quickly.
I have noticed that also. So in the last while I have been 'when I remember' trying to saw at the wheel to bring a slide back under control.
Usually I would try to very carefully and smoothly steer the car out of the slide. More often than I would like this is a losing proposition
However, recently I have found myself at times 'sawing' at the wheel and my impression is that in general it does work.
So this raises a few questions for me:
- is this only a Forza technique/tactic? I am not so sure it is...
- why would this appear to work? game calcs on physic of tire/road contact being reset by the rapid wheel turning?
- and finally, does this at all work in real life? Not so sure (actually I am sure) I have the guts to try this at 100+ in real life, but it does make me wonder
this is why tunes differ so much from wheel to controller.....it's a rare tune that's suitable for both
another thing I've noticed is some kind of auto correction happening whenever you cross the center deadzone 3 times quickly no matter how sidways you get the car. It has to be a pretty quick flick and i've found the car will straighten up magically without the tank slappers you get when you try to drive it out. Easier to do with a controller but works on a wheel too.
This must be what I see in some of Fantomas' videos and also a bunch of others of fast guys on wheels in Forza on YouTube. When they accelerate out of a corner, sometimes they saw the wheel very quickly.
I have noticed that also. So in the last while I have been 'when I remember' trying to saw at the wheel to bring a slide back under control.
Usually I would try to very carefully and smoothly steer the car out of the slide. More often than I would like this is a losing proposition
However, recently I have found myself at times 'sawing' at the wheel and my impression is that in general it does work.
So this raises a few questions for me:
- is this only a Forza technique/tactic? I am not so sure it is...
- why would this appear to work? game calcs on physic of tire/road contact being reset by the rapid wheel turning?
- and finally, does this at all work in real life? Not so sure (actually I am sure) I have the guts to try this at 100+ in real life, but it does make me wonder
Superstocker: I don't think the tunes differ at all. Tourni and I both drive using the same tunes (I'm wheel, he's controller). It's the driving techniques that are used that determine how loose a tune should be.
As to whether or not there's a magic method of stopping a tank slapper with a triple crossing of the dead zone? I haven't tested it so I have no answer on that one. My hypothesis would be no, but again this is subject to testing.
M3Rocket: No what you're seeing is a constant battle on the edge of traction. When the battle is lost for a split second, the wheel is straightened in order to stop a slide, and the battle resumes.
Fred: Yes it works in real life because it's a real life principle of static and dynamic friction that govern's it. When you tune your car you will always see the coefficient of friction that your car has. This is the coefficient of static friction. This is used to determine the amount of energy required to START the tire sliding. Once the tire has begun to slide, the coefficient of friction drops significantly, and in order to stop the slide once it has started you must now reduce the amount of energy pushing the car to a level below where it was before it started sliding. How can this be done? Well the easy way, and the way most of us do it is to reduce our speed. The other way, and considerably better way is to reduce the angle that the force is being applied. This is done by unwinding the wheel. Once you have negated the slide, you immediately begin applying forces again up to the point where the slide begins because this is the maximum amount grip you will ever have. Immediately when you begin to slide you rinse and repeat the whole process. This is done so rapidly that it appears as though you are sawing the wheel, but now you know the reason you're doing it
Just remember that when you use the technique you don't want to unwind the wheel to the other direction. You don't want to start turning in the other direction!! Just unwind enough to stop the slide, then apply steering again.
wow....i too didn't mean to stir the pot and maybe my explanation was over simplified....
.but the fact remains that there is a steering assist with the controller even on simulation, that isn't present on the wheel. All you have to do is go to a wide open place like benchmark and try a few turns at different speeds with both......it quickly becomes apparent that the contoller will only go as far as the max slip angle (grip) of the tires....but with a wheel you can go past that point and the car plows like a dump truck.
it's also very apparent when watching replay's who is using what........the controller user is jerking his way down the straight (which should slow him down but doesn't.....another aid?) and then get silky smooth though the corner. The wheel user is smooth down the straights and i have to admit the wheel has a big advantage on sweepers and oval tracks........but on the slow tight turns i think the controller has the advantage by not being able to go past that point of max grip....and that's most of the turns of any track
top times are achievable with either......but how many of those top times with a controller wouldn't be there without that assist?
Wow--that might explain why sometimes I'll give feedback to a tuner about an understeering tune and the tuner doesn't know what I'm talking about because he uses a controller! I've played with some tunes that go from tractor ploughing severe understeer to instant tank slapping oversteer with just slight counter steering and throttle. Interesting...
but, but, but, that's where the fun is!
yes, can be fun I agree
but does the person actually driving hear all that tire screeching?
or is it only one or more of the other online racers?
and is the cause a mismatch in physics calcs caused by lag or is something else going on?
I fear it is too early in the day for these deep questions, need to get a coffee and then ponder this later
I have no problem with controller users, and whatever aid they get in-game is offset by the advantages that come with the wheel. I used a controller for GT1, GT2, GT3, GT4, Forza and Forza 2, and switched to the wheel and pedals just before the release of Forza 3. I never looked back, but thats just me. Some of the fast guys are controller users, some are wheel users. For me its a question of immersion. That matters to me more than speed.
To each his own....
+1
shit i should be faster then
All I know is I can be driving along and then I start hearing the screaching of a fast controller driver coming up on me. It get's louder and louder and it is distracting as hell, lol. Then, they get past me and I feel like I am playing Spy Hunter and they've activated the smoke screen. Again, it is not all controller users, which I find strange.
I am easily distracted (my fault) so I makes me lose my concentration. I put it up their with certain player's mics that are so sensitive you can hear their TV or shifting when they use a H shifter. I have turned my headset down all the way in some races.
I think the tire screeching is lag. I've been in several races where it would appear that someone is driving with the handbrake on, but it's just lag.
Wow, I haven't been on these forums in a couple of days and this topic is at 8 pages already. I always love to get involved in these debates.
Here is my perspective. I have been using a wheel to play racing games for over 15 years. I have never played Forza with a controller and that includes the original Forza on the original Xbox. I had a Fanatec wheel for the original Xbox and it worked great.
I couldn't do one lap at any track with a controller without constantly banging the walls. I don't know what is faster and I don't care because you can only have my wheel when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. Even if it is proven beyond any doubt that a controller is faster, I will never make the switch.
I believe there are actually 3 types of racers. Controller users, Wheel users, and Aliens. TrackAssassin (controller) and Fantomas (wheel) both fall in the Alien category so there is the proof that the controller and wheel users have already mated and those 2 are the Alien offspring produced.
TrackAssassin has a point about racing lines and skill. Normally when watching a replay or spectating mode in a race I can pick out the wheel and controller users easily. I joined a race in progress recently so I decided to spectate. I was switching around to the different drivers and guessing whether they were using a wheel or controller and was right on everyone except TrackAssassin. He is unbelievably smooth with a controller. I have never seen a controller user make such smooth turning motions, even on the straights. The normal twitching tires which normally gives away a controller use immediately wasn't there at all. Just smooth fluid motion just like you would see with a wheel. And smooth is fast so that must explain some of his speed (but he is still an Alien).
To summarize, I use a wheel because I like to drive fast. I can't legally drive fast on public roads and I can't afford to go to a real race track. So the closest I can get is driving fast in a racing game. And the only way it feels right to me is if I'm using a steering wheel and pedals. I also like to have a beer or 3 now and then while I'm driving fast which I can't do on public roads or a race track, so that's another bonus of racing games.
He he, spot on Troy, Tourni is another controller alien and as smooth as silk. I must hunt out one of Tracks ghosts and have a look at his telemetry. Another thing that marks out the good racers is consistency, be it wheel or controller. If you can lap close to your best time after time you will always be there to jump on a mistake by the guy ahead.
I have been playing with the controller just to see what happened...result? total disaster, can't get close to my wheel times. So no advantage for me then
They're not aliens Troy. They're machines. There's a jack in the back of their head that they just plun into the console & ta-da. Instant cyborg.
i have been saying that for years now they are the first incarnation of skynet
As far as I'm concerned the whole thread went in a completely different direction than intended, and I'm going to continue to present my findings without commenting on why people choose what they choose. It's not a religion, and I'm not trying to convert anyone.
For those interested in the empirical data:
After running 5 laps, in the Weismann, on Nurburgring GP using the controller last night I was able to come within 8/10ths of a second of my PB.
I believe I'm over slowing for corners now because my turn in is much tighter than anticipated. I can see I'm going to apex far to early so I relax the steering to take a wider arc. I am still far too ham fisted when trying to correct the steering angle, and I over straighten. I also felt that the same assist that keeps the car from getting sloppy with sloppy inputs was a hinderance to making fine adjustments. I can see that getting the correct entry speed in the first place would go a long way towards better cornering.
My initial thoughts on correcting steering angle mid corner is that the wheel has much finer control here, and is easier to do. Entry speed and turn-in needs to be more accurate for the controller to reduce the need for subtle corrections.
I have seen that some controller users have extentions on their joysick that must help that fine control.
I would guess that it would only help going in one direction. Once you needed to correct your course, then the system takes control to an extent, and doesn't let you turn back in very quickly.
Not altering your steering lock once you commit to the corner is a key element of controller driving. For fine tuning the angle of the car it seems you're better off using the throttle to steer. With a wheel the steering is much finer so you can unwind or wind the wheel slowly for fine correction.
I'm thinking to learn how to throttle steer on the controller would likely translate to the wheel very nicely, but it's a skill that I haven't worked on a lot. This exercise has enlightened me where improvements can be made in my own driving with the wheel.
So, to be clear, the controller is an advantage for the wheel? I'd swear Parcells is in here somewhere!
That's why I've always maintained that while I'm an excellent student, I'm a poor teacher
The techniques you would need to work on to be good with the controller, aren't necessarily techniques that I work on while using the wheel. If I did work on them it would be a new bag of tricks that I'm not currently using very much, and that would make me a better driver.
I don't think it's enough to say "some people are good with controllers, while some are good with wheel", and then walk around in a blind fog. I need to know why? What is the controller better at? What are it's failings?
This leads to the question is the controller actually better or does it require you to learn better techniques in order to be fast? Is fine tuning the cars attitude better done through throttle steering, which you need to do on the controller because of it's ham fisted steering, than it is through slight adjustments of the wheel?
No doubt you have thought of this already - but you could get more insight on the theory that throttle steering is more important whe using the controller by comparing replays with the telemetry turned on of similar timed laps ran by controller and wheel users, this should show where/if the controller users are generally steering more on the throttle.
My sense, as a controller user (yes, I admit it - my name is Simon, and I am a controller user) is that I make a lot of minor steering adjustments through adjusting the throttle rather than the joystick, although I have not really thought about it before you suggested the idea.
No judgement here Simon, you're safe among friends
I'm only trying to make discoveries that everyone can make use of to become better regardless of input choice.
Other controller users, that shall remain nameless, have also confirmed that throttle steering is the way they make minor adjustments.
LOTOS
I have said this countless times in countless threads on countless boards (including here) since FM1. Lift Off Throttle Over Steer.
I tune my cars with this in mind all the time. It helps re-point the car a bit to compensate for my driving with the controller. It is much better than trying to compensate with the thumbstick for minor corrections. The added side benefit sometimes is forced speed corrections for faster entries to some turns while gaining a better entry angle (sweepers come to mind like Maple Valley).
LOTOS is normally better than jerky controller movements.
Just my .1 centavos
As a wheel user, LOTOS really throws me off. I end up sawing the wheel to correct the entry angle. :( It is a lot easier to deal with understeer on the wheel for me.
this is why tunes differ so much from wheel to controller.....it's a rare tune that's suitable for both
another thing I've noticed is some kind of auto correction happening whenever you cross the center deadzone 3 times quickly no matter how sidways you get the car. It has to be a pretty quick flick and i've found the car will straighten up magically without the tank slappers you get when you try to drive it out. Easier to do with a controller but works on a wheel too.
This must be what I see in some of Fantomas' videos and also a bunch of others of fast guys on wheels in Forza on YouTube. When they accelerate out of a corner, sometimes they saw the wheel very quickly.
I have noticed that also. So in the last while I have been 'when I remember' trying to saw at the wheel to bring a slide back under control.
Usually I would try to very carefully and smoothly steer the car out of the slide. More often than I would like this is a losing proposition
However, recently I have found myself at times 'sawing' at the wheel and my impression is that in general it does work.
So this raises a few questions for me:
- is this only a Forza technique/tactic? I am not so sure it is...
- why would this appear to work? game calcs on physic of tire/road contact being reset by the rapid wheel turning?
- and finally, does this at all work in real life? Not so sure (actually I am sure) I have the guts to try this at 100+ in real life, but it does make me wonder
Superstocker: I don't think the tunes differ at all. Tourni and I both drive using the same tunes (I'm wheel, he's controller). It's the driving techniques that are used that determine how loose a tune should be.
As to whether or not there's a magic method of stopping a tank slapper with a triple crossing of the dead zone? I haven't tested it so I have no answer on that one. My hypothesis would be no, but again this is subject to testing.
M3Rocket: No what you're seeing is a constant battle on the edge of traction. When the battle is lost for a split second, the wheel is straightened in order to stop a slide, and the battle resumes.
Fred: Yes it works in real life because it's a real life principle of static and dynamic friction that govern's it. When you tune your car you will always see the coefficient of friction that your car has. This is the coefficient of static friction. This is used to determine the amount of energy required to START the tire sliding. Once the tire has begun to slide, the coefficient of friction drops significantly, and in order to stop the slide once it has started you must now reduce the amount of energy pushing the car to a level below where it was before it started sliding. How can this be done? Well the easy way, and the way most of us do it is to reduce our speed. The other way, and considerably better way is to reduce the angle that the force is being applied. This is done by unwinding the wheel. Once you have negated the slide, you immediately begin applying forces again up to the point where the slide begins because this is the maximum amount grip you will ever have. Immediately when you begin to slide you rinse and repeat the whole process. This is done so rapidly that it appears as though you are sawing the wheel, but now you know the reason you're doing it
Just remember that when you use the technique you don't want to unwind the wheel to the other direction. You don't want to start turning in the other direction!! Just unwind enough to stop the slide, then apply steering again.