Well, think about it, if you can't even loan someone a game at launch how can they do used sales correctly? They haven't been clear about anything yet, which is their biggest issue honestly. They're just causing confusion among gamers and consumers. They should've handled this at their press conference.
Well, think about it, if you can't even loan someone a game at launch how can they do used sales correctly? They haven't been clear about anything yet, which is their biggest issue honestly. They're just causing confusion among gamers and consumers. They should've handled this at their press conference.
Rather than speculate, let me quote official information -
Trade-in and resell your disc-based games: Today, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit. We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.
Also, Gamefly might not be out but may become an App. Gamestop may have an App for trading in digitally, or it may become an Xbox One App facilitating that. Speculation here by me though.
Yes, they have said that, but they've also said the used disc would come with a fee, in certain interviews they said that fee could be as high as retail, thus negating used games.
Neither one of us truly knows where they stand on every issue, there's just too much up in the air and thus a proper discussion really can't be had until that point :(
As of right now, they can go either way. Technically used games can exist, but they can charge whatever fee they want. This is something Microsoft needs to clarify right away, and I'm dissappointed they didn't do this today. Gamers and consumers, can't properly make decisions without clear info, and just leads to angry consumers and boycotts of products whether it's warranted or not. It's something that's going to bite them in the foot, especially if they truly do want to hit that crazy projection mark of 400 million consoles sold they think they can hit. Which is 2x the sales of PS2 which is just crazy honestly to try and project.
Well, if they were gaming-only consoles I'd agree its crazy/ridiculous to target that.
I agree they need more clarification, preferably with examples. Timmy goes to gamestop, and this is what happens when he trades in. Jimmy goes to gamestop to buy used, and here's how that works. That kind of stuff.
Is there any detriment to being overly clear and having many explanations? I don't think so here.
Overall, they want people to buy it so every thing they have should have explained reasons to why someone wants or accepts such things.
There are more conferences than E3, and of course E3 has just begun. Sony and Microsoft will have more to say for sure.
Indeed, I edited my above comment to try and reflect a more clear opinion I had after posting, hoping you hadn't read mine yet. I didn't wanna clutter the board with back to back posts since some people hate that.So I'm sorry if it caused any confusion.. sometimes my brain becomes more clear after a few minutes, and I realise I can explain something better or more clear.
I just have a feeling that Microsoft wants do this:
Timmy buys COD 15 for $60 from Gamestop
Timmy beats it in 1 day and decides he never wants to play it again
Timmy takes game to Gamestop to trade in
Microsoft decides the fee for that game used is 55 used
So gamestop offers Timmy $2 for the disc
Xbox still allows used gaming, and finds a loop hole to ban it at the same time
Indeed, I edited my above comment to try and reflect a more clear opinion I had after posting, hoping you hadn't read mine yet. I didn't wanna clutter the board with back to back posts since some people hate that.So I'm sorry if it caused any confusion.. sometimes my brain becomes more clear after a few minutes, and I realise I can explain something better or more clear.
I just have a feeling that Microsoft wants do this:
Timmy buys COD 15 for $60 from Gamestop
Timmy beats it in 1 day and decides he never wants to play it again
Timmy takes game to Gamestop to trade in
Microsoft decides the fee for that game used is 55 used
So gamestop offers Timmy $2 for the disc
Xbox still allows used gaming, and finds a loop hole to ban it at the same time
A) MS gets no money from used sale fees. That's on the publisher. Or not, up to them
B) the fees will most certainly be in line with online passes - $5-10. GameStop was already eating the cost of EA passes. This will be no different.
I didn't mean Microsoft specifically, I meant as in your being charged on the Xbox One, the fee is charged over Microsoft service most likely. Whichever publisher is doing it, MS is the one allowing it, so they're just as responsible. I don't really buy many used games, as I buy new as much as possible. Only time I do is with IP's and companies I'm not familiar with. With so many "professional" game review companies getting caught taking bribes, etc. and companies using PR companies to write false opinions. It's just hard to judge a game without playing it myself these days.
Any game I buy though, I do feel that its mine to do with just like any other product I own. The whole licensing thing is a shady practice honestly, games aren't different from any other product I can buy and sell.
Nintendo really had some nice announced games! Looking forward to the 3D Sonic game, Wind Waker HD, Mario World, Donkey Kong, Pikmin 3, Super Smash Bros. was announced with MegaMan being added to the list. Nice showing of games Nintendo.
definitely going to stay away from XBone - I'd rather buy and own a real product than rent a gaming/tv box service full of DRM
EU and UK gamers got ROYALLY ripped off due to the pricing - paying equivalent of like $660 USD
Microsoft basically wrote of the European market with that pricing.
don't care about exclusives, usually the best games are multiplatform or timed exclusives.
will probably WAIT on getting the PS4 though unless it has super-good pre-order bonuses.
the XBone is huge b/c of the apu fan and cooling issues and I really want to see the guts of the PS4 before committing.
the smaller the box, the bigger the cooling complications. I don't think the PS4 has an external power brick either so that means in addition
to the APU, the Power Supply must also cram into the chasis. If Sony didn't do a good job on design and Quality Control of the cooling system,
PS4 will run into heat problems.
I'd rather wait a month and see if there is another RROD or YLOD type heat problem with PS4.
I don't think either MS or Sony did a great job at E3, but Sony kind of won by default because of the pricing and no DRM nastiness.
Gamers will vote with their wallets and I have no ill will against those who favor the Xbox One.
I'm sure Microsoft will sell millions of XB1s, just not to me.
Nice point. I've been through 6 Xbox 360's 3 of them slims, so poor design layouts will be a big issue. I prolly won't get one til at least Spring or Summer of 2014, just to be safe. Most of the good stuff won't be out til then anyways probably. I just wished I could've got a Lost Odyssey 2 :(
Big win for Sony as far as I'm concerned, seems they want to sell me a games console. Don't know if I will be rushing out day one...Well I won't, but, I can see me picking one up when there are loads of second hand games. Bungies new offering looks interesting, and a ten year development of world and plot shows a strong commitment. GT6/7 if I want a little Simcade driving action, using my very expensive no longer xbox compatible racing rig, and cheaper all around. Yup they did what was needed and I suspect I will not be the only one making the switch.
XB1 planned use of Cloud computing and dedicated game servers is going weigh heavily in it's favour going foward. $100 lower price tag for PS4 is also very attractive. Sure looks like a battle between minds and wallets.
A) I understand why they had to do what they did. If they want the system to instant switch from game to game and to other media - the game must be installed fully, always. You can't wait for a disc check. And since you wouldn't need a disc, a person could buy a game, install it, and sell it for near full price - yet still own it. That can't work. It's their interface that is causing all of this.
B) Kinect is way less gimmicky now. 1080p HD Skype? Nice. Full voice controlled interface? I don't know how much I'll use it but that is damn convenient. Detailed body scanning so much that it can measure heart rate? That's badass. It can tell who is holding a controller and set up the split screen accordingly. It's really really neat tech, and because it's guaranteed everyone has one, devs can count on that and code for that in every game.
Shadow, for me its about games and I didn't see a single PS4 game announced yesterday that interested me, and very few announced total in fact. If its such a games focused console, where were the new games?
Shadow, for me its about games and I didn't see a single PS4 game announced yesterday that interested me, and very few announced total in fact. If its such a games focused console, where were the new games?
Actually if you count all of the ps4/ps3/pc vs the xbone/xbox 360/pc titles the PS4 has more titles.
Shadow, for me its about games and I didn't see a single PS4 game announced yesterday that interested me, and very few announced total in fact. If its such a games focused console, where were the new games?
Deep Down Drive Club Knack Mad Max The Order 1886 Killzone: Shadowfall Final Fantasy XV Infamous: Second Son Kingdom Hearts 3 The Witness
Plus all the indie games that are console exclusives. And all future Sony franchises of course.
Well, I did say announced yesterday which significantly changes both of those lists.
However, as for the infopic - Diablo 3 is already confirmed on Xbox. There's one mistake already.
Dark Sorc is a tech demo. Not even a game...
Mad Max is also on PC, and Microsoft stuff too lol
The list grows shorter for Sony all the time.
So announced yesterday for Sony were... what? Order 1866, Final Fantasy numbers, Kingdom Hearts and indie games? I mean some indie games, others are already out on PC.
Then for those, how many had any gameplay shown? The indie games.
I thought E3 would be a great place to announce new PS4 exclusives, but they just didn't do that. It was more talk than anything, felt like a politician on stage with the endless talk instead of showing, and the mud slinging to be honest.
Daiblo 3 will be out on Xbox 360 before Playstation 4.
If I want to use a second screen for a game, which I already use today sometimes, on PS4 that means I must buy a Vita. On Xbox 360 or Xbox One, I just use the devices I already own - my phone or my PC. Tablets work too, but I don't own one personally.
Unlike Kinect and Eye, this is something that only adds to the cost on Playstation's side. Microsoft's cost includes a Kinect, but the Eye is an optional purchase on PS4 - so if someone wants to use it either way the price would be the same. If someone wants second screen stuff, then PS4 has additional costs in Vita form.
My consumer point of view is, I didn't get asked if I wanted a Kinect, and I'm still looking at a price difference for something I wouldn't buy given the choice. I'm still betting the cost difference will be an issue and Microsoft will have to bend...call me an optimist.
Well, loaning and renting isn't quite what gamestop does. They sell used games.
Gamefly would be harder hit than Gamestop by what you mention.
Well, think about it, if you can't even loan someone a game at launch how can they do used sales correctly? They haven't been clear about anything yet, which is their biggest issue honestly. They're just causing confusion among gamers and consumers. They should've handled this at their press conference.
Rather than speculate, let me quote official information -
Trade-in and resell your disc-based games: Today, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit. We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.
Also, Gamefly might not be out but may become an App. Gamestop may have an App for trading in digitally, or it may become an Xbox One App facilitating that. Speculation here by me though.
If Gamefly is out, I'm out.
Yes, they have said that, but they've also said the used disc would come with a fee, in certain interviews they said that fee could be as high as retail, thus negating used games.
Neither one of us truly knows where they stand on every issue, there's just too much up in the air and thus a proper discussion really can't be had until that point :(
As of right now, they can go either way. Technically used games can exist, but they can charge whatever fee they want. This is something Microsoft needs to clarify right away, and I'm dissappointed they didn't do this today. Gamers and consumers, can't properly make decisions without clear info, and just leads to angry consumers and boycotts of products whether it's warranted or not. It's something that's going to bite them in the foot, especially if they truly do want to hit that crazy projection mark of 400 million consoles sold they think they can hit. Which is 2x the sales of PS2 which is just crazy honestly to try and project.
Well, if they were gaming-only consoles I'd agree its crazy/ridiculous to target that.
I agree they need more clarification, preferably with examples. Timmy goes to gamestop, and this is what happens when he trades in. Jimmy goes to gamestop to buy used, and here's how that works. That kind of stuff.
Is there any detriment to being overly clear and having many explanations? I don't think so here.
Overall, they want people to buy it so every thing they have should have explained reasons to why someone wants or accepts such things.
There are more conferences than E3, and of course E3 has just begun. Sony and Microsoft will have more to say for sure.
Xbox One-Supported Xbox Live Countries
Indeed, I edited my above comment to try and reflect a more clear opinion I had after posting, hoping you hadn't read mine yet. I didn't wanna clutter the board with back to back posts since some people hate that.So I'm sorry if it caused any confusion.. sometimes my brain becomes more clear after a few minutes, and I realise I can explain something better or more clear.
I just have a feeling that Microsoft wants do this:
Timmy buys COD 15 for $60 from Gamestop
Timmy beats it in 1 day and decides he never wants to play it again
Timmy takes game to Gamestop to trade in
Microsoft decides the fee for that game used is 55 used
So gamestop offers Timmy $2 for the disc
Xbox still allows used gaming, and finds a loop hole to ban it at the same time
A) MS gets no money from used sale fees. That's on the publisher. Or not, up to them
B) the fees will most certainly be in line with online passes - $5-10. GameStop was already eating the cost of EA passes. This will be no different.
I didn't mean Microsoft specifically, I meant as in your being charged on the Xbox One, the fee is charged over Microsoft service most likely. Whichever publisher is doing it, MS is the one allowing it, so they're just as responsible. I don't really buy many used games, as I buy new as much as possible. Only time I do is with IP's and companies I'm not familiar with. With so many "professional" game review companies getting caught taking bribes, etc. and companies using PR companies to write false opinions. It's just hard to judge a game without playing it myself these days.
Any game I buy though, I do feel that its mine to do with just like any other product I own. The whole licensing thing is a shady practice honestly, games aren't different from any other product I can buy and sell.
Nintendo really had some nice announced games! Looking forward to the 3D Sonic game, Wind Waker HD, Mario World, Donkey Kong, Pikmin 3, Super Smash Bros. was announced with MegaMan being added to the list. Nice showing of games Nintendo.
definitely going to stay away from XBone - I'd rather buy and own a real product than rent a gaming/tv box service full of DRM
EU and UK gamers got ROYALLY ripped off due to the pricing - paying equivalent of like $660 USD
Microsoft basically wrote of the European market with that pricing.
don't care about exclusives, usually the best games are multiplatform or timed exclusives.
will probably WAIT on getting the PS4 though unless it has super-good pre-order bonuses.
the XBone is huge b/c of the apu fan and cooling issues and I really want to see the guts of the PS4 before committing.
the smaller the box, the bigger the cooling complications. I don't think the PS4 has an external power brick either so that means in addition
to the APU, the Power Supply must also cram into the chasis. If Sony didn't do a good job on design and Quality Control of the cooling system,
PS4 will run into heat problems.
I'd rather wait a month and see if there is another RROD or YLOD type heat problem with PS4.
I don't think either MS or Sony did a great job at E3, but Sony kind of won by default because of the pricing and no DRM nastiness.
Gamers will vote with their wallets and I have no ill will against those who favor the Xbox One.
I'm sure Microsoft will sell millions of XB1s, just not to me.
Nice point. I've been through 6 Xbox 360's 3 of them slims, so poor design layouts will be a big issue. I prolly won't get one til at least Spring or Summer of 2014, just to be safe. Most of the good stuff won't be out til then anyways probably. I just wished I could've got a Lost Odyssey 2 :(
Seems Japan is left out from both Xbox One and PS4 at launch.
Agree with Styles - PS4 is limited at launch to launch specs, while the processing power available to Xbox One can improve over time.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/GX5cZ5I.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/lDJiaZl.gif[/IMG]
Big win for Sony as far as I'm concerned, seems they want to sell me a games console. Don't know if I will be rushing out day one...Well I won't, but, I can see me picking one up when there are loads of second hand games. Bungies new offering looks interesting, and a ten year development of world and plot shows a strong commitment. GT6/7 if I want a little Simcade driving action, using my very expensive no longer xbox compatible racing rig, and cheaper all around. Yup they did what was needed and I suspect I will not be the only one making the switch.
XB1 planned use of Cloud computing and dedicated game servers is going weigh heavily in it's favour going foward. $100 lower price tag for PS4 is also very attractive. Sure looks like a battle between minds and wallets.
Pretty sure PS has always used dedicated game servers.
Thanks for all the info.
Im going PS this time around. Back to my roots I guess.
Opinions on game DRM, and Kinect cost packed in:
A) I understand why they had to do what they did. If they want the system to instant switch from game to game and to other media - the game must be installed fully, always. You can't wait for a disc check. And since you wouldn't need a disc, a person could buy a game, install it, and sell it for near full price - yet still own it. That can't work. It's their interface that is causing all of this.
B) Kinect is way less gimmicky now. 1080p HD Skype? Nice. Full voice controlled interface? I don't know how much I'll use it but that is damn convenient. Detailed body scanning so much that it can measure heart rate? That's badass. It can tell who is holding a controller and set up the split screen accordingly. It's really really neat tech, and because it's guaranteed everyone has one, devs can count on that and code for that in every game.
Shadow, for me its about games and I didn't see a single PS4 game announced yesterday that interested me, and very few announced total in fact. If its such a games focused console, where were the new games?
Actually if you count all of the ps4/ps3/pc vs the xbone/xbox 360/pc titles the PS4 has more titles.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/6pVYWFg.jpg[/IMG]
Deep Down
Drive Club
Knack
Mad Max
The Order 1886
Killzone: Shadowfall
Final Fantasy XV
Infamous: Second Son
Kingdom Hearts 3
The Witness
Plus all the indie games that are console exclusives. And all future Sony franchises of course.
What about all those indy games? Do they not count?
Well, I did say announced yesterday which significantly changes both of those lists.
However, as for the infopic - Diablo 3 is already confirmed on Xbox. There's one mistake already.
Dark Sorc is a tech demo. Not even a game...
Mad Max is also on PC, and Microsoft stuff too lol
The list grows shorter for Sony all the time.
So announced yesterday for Sony were... what? Order 1866, Final Fantasy numbers, Kingdom Hearts and indie games? I mean some indie games, others are already out on PC.
Then for those, how many had any gameplay shown? The indie games.
I thought E3 would be a great place to announce new PS4 exclusives, but they just didn't do that. It was more talk than anything, felt like a politician on stage with the endless talk instead of showing, and the mud slinging to be honest.
except that chart is wrong - PS4 does not have analog outputs. It only has Optical and HDMI.
How's Diablo3 a Sony exclusive? What's on my PC?
Daiblo 3 will be out on Xbox 360 before Playstation 4.
If I want to use a second screen for a game, which I already use today sometimes, on PS4 that means I must buy a Vita. On Xbox 360 or Xbox One, I just use the devices I already own - my phone or my PC. Tablets work too, but I don't own one personally.
Unlike Kinect and Eye, this is something that only adds to the cost on Playstation's side. Microsoft's cost includes a Kinect, but the Eye is an optional purchase on PS4 - so if someone wants to use it either way the price would be the same. If someone wants second screen stuff, then PS4 has additional costs in Vita form.
My consumer point of view is, I didn't get asked if I wanted a Kinect, and I'm still looking at a price difference for something I wouldn't buy given the choice. I'm still betting the cost difference will be an issue and Microsoft will have to bend...call me an optimist.