How about a roll off delay, people that use their brakes and not other peoples bumpers? Yeah, there are those of us that aren't as fast as others. Be patient, if someone isn't as good of a racer, or is all over the track, chances are they are going to F-up somewhere and you can get a clean pass, they don't have to be "bumped" around every corner.
Thank you to all that appeared for the first races of the season. There was a lot of contact but hopefully things smooth out for the rest of the season. I apologize again to Nunder for locking up my brakes and hitting him at Suzuka.
Here's the results from the first two races. I will get an official points table set up in the OP when I settle on a tracking system.
Suzuka:
1. Brnt
2. Grim
3. Kat
4. Jimee
5. Oldschool
6. Shrimp
7. Prebuilt
8. Snappy
9. Drivebye
10. Stewie
11. Teammate
12. Gizmo
13. Ciletti
14. Roth
15. Max
16. Nunder
Nurburgring GP:
1. Drivebye
2. Oldschool
3. Snappy
4. Jimee
5. Stewie
6. Ciletti
7. Kat
8. Max
9. Grim
10. Brnt
11. Teammate
12. Roth
13. Gizmo
14. Nunder
15. Prebuilt
16. Shrimp
Going into next week's races at Catalunya GP and Motegi Full. Brnt, Grim, and Kat will return to no handicap and myself, Oldschool, and Snappy will take a 5% to start off the night.
I'm all for a roll off start. I've considered and discussed it with a few people a while back.
Anyone else please post you thoughts on this idea. Now I wonder about how long of a roll off and if I need to set up the starting grids accordingly to account for the roll off delay.
Nunderwoob, I understand what you're saying but there is also the circumstance sometimes that the person who bumped you was under heavy pressure and getting bumped as well. Particularly at the start and for a lot of the first lap. Unfortunately, it's difficult to avoid these types of incidents due to the "squirmy" nature of the cars and the varying skill levels in the lobbies. I hope you reconsider and give it another shot next week.
Without reviewing the replay to see what incidents you were in I can't speak to the specifics there but generally those things are hard to avoid. I know I bumped a couple people during each race tonight but was bumped also.
On a separate but related note: I have always believed that there are certain places on every track where it's just a bad place to try a pass or go in two wide. Now, that opinion isn't universally held and even if it were different racers would have varying opinions about where it is good to pass. Example: I think it's generally a bad idea for me to try a move on another racer at turn two (the tight sweeper after the hairpin) at the Nurburgring GP circuit. (Unless they have run very wide or spun) Now, sometimes in the heat of battle mistakes and over zealous moves are made but generally, I try not to. Just food for thought. I guess this falls into the separate thread category.
Personally I'm hoping all the contact was in large part due to the tracks raced this evening. These high powered twitchy cars are quite the handful even with all that grip and control which leads to the car getting sideways or out of position quickly and that causes more problems with 16 racers in close quarters. Next weeks tracks should be a different story I would think.
It was me that got into Nunder. I wasn't under pressure, I simply locked up the brakes and I couldn't get out from behind him in time. It was my mistake and I apologize sincerely, I even pulled over to give him my position, but he left the room at that point. Shit happens when you party naked...
Incidents like that happen. I understand that, but in the 2nd race I was bumped damn near the whole race, straights included. I know some of you brake late, but if the guy in front of you brakes early, or sooner than you doesn't mean that you hit them cuz they are on the same line as you.
I'm not giving up. I shouldn't have gotten so frustrated either. I just stunk to lose spots continuously after gain spot after spot after spot. I passed enough cars to finish in 1st for 3 races or more.
I DO have a question though.
Let's say two cars get into each other (or 4 cars whatever lol), and then you crash into them because there is LITERALLY nowhere to go......Is it OK if YOU call the caution even though you crashed into them???
I was piled up into a crash of someone else's doing I'm guessing 1/2 dozen times.
As for the cars.....Man I STILL swear that these cars are EASIER to drive then LOTS of S700 cars! I really don't think they are bad at all. If I had a complaint it's that they are WIDE, and maybe that led to some of the traffic jams I encountered.
The room was full with all different skill levels and with a tight track like Suzuka its going to lead to some contact. These cars are light quick and twitchy and that leads to some overconfidence and overdriving.
A rolloff is good until the first caution and then its chaos again. 3 lap heat with ghosts to set the start grid with fastest up front to start the main event? Same 3 lap heat and the slowest group gets a 2-3 sec head start for the main? These things are all out the window when we have a Caution.
On that matter what speed are the caution laps to be run at? I for one like the "get back in line where you can" caution, no matter what. Yeah I know it isn't fair to the guy who got punted but it does get back to racing sooner with less confusion, or 1st 3-4 laps cautions after that no cautions.
Catalunya has its own set of trouble spots as does each track.
To be honest if it is a full room again ( I sincerly hope so) there will be contact. There is contact in the pick-up rooms that we run every day and we just say "sorry" and "no problem" and keep racing. Now that this is a "Real" race, somehow we get frustrated when if happens. I am not picking on any 1 person or persons here, I know this feeling because I do it too.
Rambling is done (where is the soapbox emoticon?)
Don't let this discourage you from running. This is a good series and deserves to have a full room. Give it another shot.
I think what it was is that I wasn't there. LoL By just listening to you guys it seems that it was a horrible race. Nunder, remember man it's just a game. I might complain much but that is why I'm thick headed( but that why my girlfriend loves me. ) but the thing is that a series with fast cars isn't going to be easy. Well I hope to catch you guys in the next one.
Does anyone have the replays for the races last night.
And Jimmy it's OK if you mention me, you are right I shouldn't have been so uptight about it. I'm not usually like that I don't think. (maybe I am). I'm also not the cleanest of racers but I'm getting better.
In this case it was just the anticipation. Testing before the events I was running some really fast times at both places, but that doesn't necessarily matter since that much traffic changes things a bunch.
Personally I'd like to see "qualifying" heats run as ghosted, and then start the race by lobby points. The faster guys will start up front every race, but then you have guys with similar speed racing each other the entire race. I think in this case since the cars are capable of being SO fast, the proplems are from the huge difference in speed on track between drivers. Not only does it make passing harder pull off cleanly but if you are patient behind a slower driver you get left in the dust by the guys who got the "luck of the draw" and started up front.
Look at that bolded part and think back to the Escort series. There was contact FOR SURE, but considering the entire group ran together in one lump, it was pretty amazing to see how clean the racing was. Why? Well slower helped for sure, but also everyone was handicapped to run the same speeds.
That ISN'T a case to make similar handicaps in this series. In fact the handicaps wouldn't accomodate everyone for sure.
I just think that grouping similar speeds together via qualifying would be a good idea.
I think in this case since the cars are capable of being SO fast, the proplems are from the huge difference in speed on track between drivers.
Totally agree and is why Parcells generally frowns on series higher than A class including this one.
To continue a thought that a gentleman racer started a few posts ago in regard to "its difficult to judge what is a risky pass vs. full out aggression/douche-baggery" consider the Sergoi Perez factor. In last weeks Monaco F1 race the guy was driving like a total idiot (or so Parcells thought)...he "may" have gotten by Button (his own teammate mind you) cleanly on the very tight chicane coming out of the tunnel but before he aggressivley parked his car on the apex (which just about anyone can do) to force a pass on both Alonso and Raikonen on the laps before he forced both drivers to cut through the chicane (which is usually a penalty) but because there was simply no where else to go because of Perez's very risky move that didn't pay off the first couple of attempts the stewards didn't penalize Alonso or Raikonen and rightfully so.
But in the end and after he pulled the exact same move on both drivers AND totally fucked Raikonen's race (punctured his trye) he was not penalized so obvioulsy the stewards agreed with Perez. The point being this is the very pinnacle of professional racing and this bullshit driving by Perez was (shockingly) deemed legal and fair...go figure!
I didnt get a chance to even race in the event because it was full. But my adivice is this:
1st: Handicaps start in the rear.
2nd: Roll off per handicap group. No matter how you put it, handicaped people handle better due to the lack of HP. If they are good drivers, they will catch the no handicaps in the turns.
3rd: When someone calls "CAUTION!" then the room leader confirms it by saying "CAUTION!". Once room leader says it, everyone slows to 50 MPH / 80 KM/H and you maintain your current distance of the person in front of you. As long as people all abide by it, then not only can the person get their place back, but people will have the same distance as the time the caution was called. Thus making the roll offs still effective. You could even do a dead stop too. No one moves until that person is back and ready. I know it would take longer but it would maintain distances and prevent post caution carnage to start yet another caution. These cars have the brakes to be able to slow down to 0-50 MPH in no time, so it won't be an issue.
4th: Nunder, I encourage you to stay in it for at least one more week of races. Like everyone is saying, the courses were tight and the cars are fast and twitchy. Not everyone is adjusted to racing these cars yet. Also keep in mind that the first race of a series for the host is the start of the learning process. If you go through the posts in the Lotus Evora Series that I ran, you'll see the first race was the worst but the races got better as the series went on and I learned what works and what doesn't, every series is different due to the course/car selection. It's very hard to host one of these series and try to appease everyone. So again, I encourage you to give it another go next Saturday, and give driveby a 2nd chance. Like I said, it's a learning process being host, Hell, it's a learning process being one of the racers. Just be patient. I will even give up my spot in the room for you if it ends up being full and you want to try it again. That's how bad I want you to give it another go.
Even with handicaps I'd like to see the starting positions set by "qualifying laps". You should be able to by not grouping by buckets and start by lobby points right?
Plus by doing it this way you can't blame your starting position on luck of the draw or anything else other than yourself.
I would like to add that drivers are also learning each others habits on track. I know that many in this group run together all the time but it still changes race to race, track to track and car to car.
Also, drive by, it can't hurt to run a practice session and see how running qualification laps and then a subsequent race based off of that quali. I'd be more than happy to run one if you decide to do it.
I would like to add that drivers are also learning each others habits on track. I know that many in this group run together all the time but it still changes race to race, track to track and car to car.
Another awesome point by a gentleman racer...Parcells philosophy is to give a very wide berth to drivers you're not familiar with and to be very cautious about engaging 2 wide racing with someone until your confident they can handle it and that usually takes a lot of time and patience.
If you follow the first part of the advise it will usually cost you race time and concievably a podium finish but if you take the time to follow a slower driver to make a clean pass the rookie will learn so much more about quality race craft and ultimately become a better driver by witnessing how you toy with him/her as you set them up for the pass. If it take 2 or 3 laps then all the better for the rookie!
I would like to add that drivers are also learning each others habits on track. I know that many in this group run together all the time but it still changes race to race, track to track and car to car.
Another awesome point by a gentleman racer...Parcells philosophy is to give a very wide berth to drivers you're not familiar with and to be very cautious about engaging 2 wide racing with someone until your confident they can handle it and that usually takes a lot of time and patience.
If you follow the first part of the advise it will usually cost you race time and concievably a podium finish but if you take the time to follow a slower driver to make a clean pass the rookie will learn so much more about quality race craft and ultimately become a better driver by witnessing how you toy with him/her as you set them up for the pass. If it take 2 or 3 laps then all the better for the rookie!
Again though the issue is that the drivers are so seperated in time in these cars that without forcing the issue you will be 1/2 lap behind before making it past a few drivers.
And mind you I'm not saying this to justify my own rough driving. I did have a WTF moment at T1 at Nurburg, and a cuation fixed it up, but otherwise I think I only pressed the issue on Celliti. Even then I didn't get into him or anything just tried going around on the outside at Suzuka.........It only screwed myself.
Only other one I can think of was pressuring Snappy, but I DID wait till he made a mistake and was able to get by without contact.
SHAKE AND BAKE
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/75465820@N06/8880853990/][img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8397/8880853990_7c09140f18_b.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/75465820@N06/8880853990/]race2[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/75465820@N06/]katpeeler[/url], on Flickr
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/75465820@N06/8880854212/][img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7448/8880854212_50524a93df_b.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/75465820@N06/8880854212/]race[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/75465820@N06/]katpeeler[/url], on Flickr
Which one's RickyBobby?
Nice lookin' cars
The 1st race of the season kicks off tomorrow night! Let's see some good racin'.
Ya BOI
Driveby is it OK to change the number plate to pure white? If so can you gift it over?
Got the paints done, just need to see if Brnt's cool with them. They turned out OK. Needed to add a couple things but I'll get it.
FKRSFST Motorsports
Lexus Unveiling right meow
Prepped and waiting for the race!
Just got on prebuilt. Sorry I forgot to send the plate last night. I'm sending it over right meow.
1 hour until the flag drops, see you guys at the pre race seafood buffet!
I am officially bowing out of the GT series. Could have been fun, but it wasn't.
I'm open for suggestions to make it fun for everyone...
How about a roll off delay, people that use their brakes and not other peoples bumpers? Yeah, there are those of us that aren't as fast as others. Be patient, if someone isn't as good of a racer, or is all over the track, chances are they are going to F-up somewhere and you can get a clean pass, they don't have to be "bumped" around every corner.
Thank you to all that appeared for the first races of the season. There was a lot of contact but hopefully things smooth out for the rest of the season. I apologize again to Nunder for locking up my brakes and hitting him at Suzuka.
Here's the results from the first two races. I will get an official points table set up in the OP when I settle on a tracking system.
Suzuka:
1. Brnt
2. Grim
3. Kat
4. Jimee
5. Oldschool
6. Shrimp
7. Prebuilt
8. Snappy
9. Drivebye
10. Stewie
11. Teammate
12. Gizmo
13. Ciletti
14. Roth
15. Max
16. Nunder
Nurburgring GP:
1. Drivebye
2. Oldschool
3. Snappy
4. Jimee
5. Stewie
6. Ciletti
7. Kat
8. Max
9. Grim
10. Brnt
11. Teammate
12. Roth
13. Gizmo
14. Nunder
15. Prebuilt
16. Shrimp
Going into next week's races at Catalunya GP and Motegi Full. Brnt, Grim, and Kat will return to no handicap and myself, Oldschool, and Snappy will take a 5% to start off the night.
go ahead and take my name out of the standings as I won't be racing in this series any more.
I'm all for a roll off start. I've considered and discussed it with a few people a while back.
Anyone else please post you thoughts on this idea. Now I wonder about how long of a roll off and if I need to set up the starting grids accordingly to account for the roll off delay.
Thanks
Nunderwoob, I understand what you're saying but there is also the circumstance sometimes that the person who bumped you was under heavy pressure and getting bumped as well. Particularly at the start and for a lot of the first lap. Unfortunately, it's difficult to avoid these types of incidents due to the "squirmy" nature of the cars and the varying skill levels in the lobbies. I hope you reconsider and give it another shot next week.
Without reviewing the replay to see what incidents you were in I can't speak to the specifics there but generally those things are hard to avoid. I know I bumped a couple people during each race tonight but was bumped also.
On a separate but related note: I have always believed that there are certain places on every track where it's just a bad place to try a pass or go in two wide. Now, that opinion isn't universally held and even if it were different racers would have varying opinions about where it is good to pass. Example: I think it's generally a bad idea for me to try a move on another racer at turn two (the tight sweeper after the hairpin) at the Nurburgring GP circuit. (Unless they have run very wide or spun) Now, sometimes in the heat of battle mistakes and over zealous moves are made but generally, I try not to. Just food for thought. I guess this falls into the separate thread category.
Personally I'm hoping all the contact was in large part due to the tracks raced this evening. These high powered twitchy cars are quite the handful even with all that grip and control which leads to the car getting sideways or out of position quickly and that causes more problems with 16 racers in close quarters. Next weeks tracks should be a different story I would think.
It was me that got into Nunder. I wasn't under pressure, I simply locked up the brakes and I couldn't get out from behind him in time. It was my mistake and I apologize sincerely, I even pulled over to give him my position, but he left the room at that point. Shit happens when you party naked...
Incidents like that happen. I understand that, but in the 2nd race I was bumped damn near the whole race, straights included. I know some of you brake late, but if the guy in front of you brakes early, or sooner than you doesn't mean that you hit them cuz they are on the same line as you.
I'm not giving up. I shouldn't have gotten so frustrated either. I just stunk to lose spots continuously after gain spot after spot after spot. I passed enough cars to finish in 1st for 3 races or more.
I DO have a question though.
Let's say two cars get into each other (or 4 cars whatever lol), and then you crash into them because there is LITERALLY nowhere to go......Is it OK if YOU call the caution even though you crashed into them???
I was piled up into a crash of someone else's doing I'm guessing 1/2 dozen times.
As for the cars.....Man I STILL swear that these cars are EASIER to drive then LOTS of S700 cars! I really don't think they are bad at all. If I had a complaint it's that they are WIDE, and maybe that led to some of the traffic jams I encountered.
Patience is the answer. Not to many of us has it..gif "129")
.gif "116")
The room was full with all different skill levels and with a tight track like Suzuka its going to lead to some contact. These cars are light quick and twitchy and that leads to some overconfidence and overdriving..gif "42")
A rolloff is good until the first caution and then its chaos again. 3 lap heat with ghosts to set the start grid with fastest up front to start the main event? Same 3 lap heat and the slowest group gets a 2-3 sec head start for the main? These things are all out the window when we have a Caution..gif "78")
On that matter what speed are the caution laps to be run at? I for one like the "get back in line where you can" caution, no matter what. Yeah I know it isn't fair to the guy who got punted but it does get back to racing sooner with less confusion, or 1st 3-4 laps cautions after that no cautions..gif "40")
Catalunya has its own set of trouble spots as does each track..gif "68")
To be honest if it is a full room again ( I sincerly hope so) there will be contact. There is contact in the pick-up rooms that we run every day and we just say "sorry" and "no problem" and keep racing. Now that this is a "Real" race, somehow we get frustrated when if happens. I am not picking on any 1 person or persons here, I know this feeling because I do it too..gif "80")
Rambling is done (where is the soapbox emoticon?).gif "2")
Don't let this discourage you from running. This is a good series and deserves to have a full room. Give it another shot..gif "1")
I think what it was is that I wasn't there. LoL By just listening to you guys it seems that it was a horrible race. Nunder, remember man it's just a game. I might complain much but that is why I'm thick headed( but that why my girlfriend loves me..gif "53")
) but the thing is that a series with fast cars isn't going to be easy. Well I hope to catch you guys in the next one. .gif "53")
Does anyone have the replays for the races last night.
And Jimmy it's OK if you mention me,
you are right I shouldn't have been so uptight about it. I'm not usually like that I don't think. (maybe I am). I'm also not the cleanest of racers but I'm getting better.
In this case it was just the anticipation. Testing before the events I was running some really fast times at both places, but that doesn't necessarily matter since that much traffic changes things a bunch..gif "14")
Personally I'd like to see "qualifying" heats run as ghosted, and then start the race by lobby points. The faster guys will start up front every race, but then you have guys with similar speed racing each other the entire race. I think in this case since the cars are capable of being SO fast, the proplems are from the huge difference in speed on track between drivers. Not only does it make passing harder pull off cleanly but if you are patient behind a slower driver you get left in the dust by the guys who got the "luck of the draw" and started up front.
Look at that bolded part and think back to the Escort series. There was contact FOR SURE, but considering the entire group ran together in one lump, it was pretty amazing to see how clean the racing was. Why? Well slower helped for sure, but also everyone was handicapped to run the same speeds.
That ISN'T a case to make similar handicaps in this series. In fact the handicaps wouldn't accomodate everyone for sure.
I just think that grouping similar speeds together via qualifying would be a good idea.
Totally agree and is why Parcells generally frowns on series higher than A class including this one.
To continue a thought that a gentleman racer started a few posts ago in regard to "its difficult to judge what is a risky pass vs. full out aggression/douche-baggery" consider the Sergoi Perez factor. In last weeks Monaco F1 race the guy was driving like a total idiot (or so Parcells thought)...he "may" have gotten by Button (his own teammate mind you) cleanly on the very tight chicane coming out of the tunnel but before he aggressivley parked his car on the apex (which just about anyone can do) to force a pass on both Alonso and Raikonen on the laps before he forced both drivers to cut through the chicane (which is usually a penalty) but because there was simply no where else to go because of Perez's very risky move that didn't pay off the first couple of attempts the stewards didn't penalize Alonso or Raikonen and rightfully so.
But in the end and after he pulled the exact same move on both drivers AND totally fucked Raikonen's race (punctured his trye) he was not penalized so obvioulsy the stewards agreed with Perez. The point being this is the very pinnacle of professional racing and this bullshit driving by Perez was (shockingly) deemed legal and fair...go figure!
Damn you Perez!!!!!
I didnt get a chance to even race in the event because it was full. But my adivice is this:
1st: Handicaps start in the rear.
2nd: Roll off per handicap group. No matter how you put it, handicaped people handle better due to the lack of HP. If they are good drivers, they will catch the no handicaps in the turns.
3rd: When someone calls "CAUTION!" then the room leader confirms it by saying "CAUTION!". Once room leader says it, everyone slows to 50 MPH / 80 KM/H and you maintain your current distance of the person in front of you. As long as people all abide by it, then not only can the person get their place back, but people will have the same distance as the time the caution was called. Thus making the roll offs still effective. You could even do a dead stop too. No one moves until that person is back and ready. I know it would take longer but it would maintain distances and prevent post caution carnage to start yet another caution. These cars have the brakes to be able to slow down to 0-50 MPH in no time, so it won't be an issue.
4th: Nunder, I encourage you to stay in it for at least one more week of races. Like everyone is saying, the courses were tight and the cars are fast and twitchy. Not everyone is adjusted to racing these cars yet. Also keep in mind that the first race of a series for the host is the start of the learning process. If you go through the posts in the Lotus Evora Series that I ran, you'll see the first race was the worst but the races got better as the series went on and I learned what works and what doesn't, every series is different due to the course/car selection. It's very hard to host one of these series and try to appease everyone. So again, I encourage you to give it another go next Saturday, and give driveby a 2nd chance. Like I said, it's a learning process being host, Hell, it's a learning process being one of the racers. Just be patient. I will even give up my spot in the room for you if it ends up being full and you want to try it again. That's how bad I want you to give it another go.
Even with handicaps I'd like to see the starting positions set by "qualifying laps". You should be able to by not grouping by buckets and start by lobby points right?
Plus by doing it this way you can't blame your starting position on luck of the draw or anything else other than yourself.
I would like to add that drivers are also learning each others habits on track. I know that many in this group run together all the time but it still changes race to race, track to track and car to car.
Also, drive by, it can't hurt to run a practice session and see how running qualification laps and then a subsequent race based off of that quali. I'd be more than happy to run one if you decide to do it.
Another awesome point by a gentleman racer...Parcells philosophy is to give a very wide berth to drivers you're not familiar with and to be very cautious about engaging 2 wide racing with someone until your confident they can handle it and that usually takes a lot of time and patience.
If you follow the first part of the advise it will usually cost you race time and concievably a podium finish but if you take the time to follow a slower driver to make a clean pass the rookie will learn so much more about quality race craft and ultimately become a better driver by witnessing how you toy with him/her as you set them up for the pass. If it take 2 or 3 laps then all the better for the rookie!
Again though the issue is that the drivers are so seperated in time in these cars that without forcing the issue you will be 1/2 lap behind before making it past a few drivers.
And mind you I'm not saying this to justify my own rough driving. I did have a WTF moment at T1 at Nurburg, and a cuation fixed it up, but otherwise I think I only pressed the issue on Celliti. Even then I didn't get into him or anything just tried going around on the outside at Suzuka.........It only screwed myself.
Only other one I can think of was pressuring Snappy, but I DID wait till he made a mistake and was able to get by without contact.
I hope you reconsider Woob!!!!!
I think we should just get back in line where you can for a caution.
I have the replays prebuilt.
Send em' over when you get a chance would ya stewie?
The racing wasn't bad actually. Hell I was passing cars left and right. And didn't realize I finished as good as I did at Suzuka.
The from 3rd to 14th fiasco at one of my favorite tracks was just the icing on the cake and unfortunately I lost my composure.