Regardless of who penned the repsonses to the link Hop posted, I think the opinions are reasonable and I'm in agreement with much of what was stated.
Maybe, just maybe, 343 should have taken note of the fact that we don't need new weapons. Remember how excited most of us were, initially, when 343 announced the return of the BR to H4? There was so much love for this iconic weapon, fanboys were singing the praises to 343 for simply announcing it's return.
Now, not so much...lol
Perhaps it's their mentality that Halo needs to be altered, that's caused such a change in the Halo population. COD makes tweaks and changes to their games each year, but for the most part they play in a similar fashion.
Now imagine, you have not played Halo since H2. You load-up H4 and you are greeted with loadouts, armor abilities, sprint, specializations and the many various unlocks. Yeah, Halo has changed - a lot! Think about a similar circumstance where a player that played Modern Warfare, loads up BLOPS 2. I'm thinking the COD player will have the easier transition and find a lot of similarities to the older version.
Both series have changed over time, but I'm thinking Halo has seen more changes to it's fundamentals than COD. Also, it's not that all change is bad, but changing just for the sake of changing or to hand-hold for noobs - well, that's not a good thing. COD has their formula that works. Halo seemed to have one too, but I think these new ingredients need to be removed.
I dunno...most of you won't read this, so just move on to the next post by DEEP or Dixon...
Regardless of who penned the repsonses to the link Hop posted, I think the opinions are reasonable and I'm in agreement with much of what was stated.
Maybe, just maybe, 343 should have taken note of the fact that we don't need new weapons. Remember how excited most of us were, initially, when 343 announced the return of the BR to H4? There was so much love for this iconic weapon, fanboys were singing the praises to 343 for simply announcing it's return.
Now, not so much...lol
Perhaps it's their mentality that Halo needs to be altered, that's caused such a change in the Halo population. COD makes tweaks and changes to their games each year, but for the most part they play in a similar fashion.
Now imagine, you have not played Halo since H2. You load-up H4 and you are greeted with loadouts, armor abilities, sprint, specializations and the many various unlocks. Yeah, Halo has changed - a lot! Think about a similar circumstance where a player that played Modern Warfare, loads up BLOPS 2. I'm thinking the COD player will have the easier transition and find a lot of similarities to the older version.
Both series have changed over time, but I'm thinking Halo has seen more changes to it's fundamentals than COD. Also, it's not that all change is bad, but changing just for the sake of changing or to hand-hold for noobs - well, that's not a good thing. COD has their formula that works. Halo seemed to have one too, but I think these new ingredients need to be removed.
I dunno...most of you won't read this, so just move on to the next post by DEEP or Dixon...
See this post, folks who care. It is a post that includes personal opinion, thought and effort. I may not agree at all with the first paragraph but I appreciate he set his own opinion into words after that.
Regardless of who penned the repsonses to the link Hop posted, I think the opinions are reasonable and I'm in agreement with much of what was stated.
Maybe, just maybe, 343 should have taken note of the fact that we don't need new weapons. Remember how excited most of us were, initially, when 343 announced the return of the BR to H4? There was so much love for this iconic weapon, fanboys were singing the praises to 343 for simply announcing it's return.
Now, not so much...lol
Perhaps it's their mentality that Halo needs to be altered, that's caused such a change in the Halo population. COD makes tweaks and changes to their games each year, but for the most part they play in a similar fashion.
Now imagine, you have not played Halo since H2. You load-up H4 and you are greeted with loadouts, armor abilities, sprint, specializations and the many various unlocks. Yeah, Halo has changed - a lot! Think about a similar circumstance where a player that played Modern Warfare, loads up BLOPS 2. I'm thinking the COD player will have the easier transition and find a lot of similarities to the older version.
Both series have changed over time, but I'm thinking Halo has seen more changes to it's fundamentals than COD. Also, it's not that all change is bad, but changing just for the sake of changing or to hand-hold for noobs - well, that's not a good thing. COD has their formula that works. Halo seemed to have one too, but I think these new ingredients need to be removed.
I dunno...most of you won't read this, so just move on to the next post by DEEP or Dixon...
There's nothing really wrong with the BR, it's just that there are now other weapons that are in a similar category that outclass it. That, coupled with bigger maps and sprint causes your disappointment.
I don't think Darth and I have much in common in play style but I agree with almost everything he said, which tells you something I think. While people had strong opinions about the relative merits of H1-H3 the key core mechanics of the game were pretty much the same in all three. All three games were hugely loved and successful. Reach and now H4 have made major changes to the mechanics and the verdict is in: people didn't like them and they're voting with their feet. It's an upsetting fact for those of us who are (were) passionate about the game, but a fact nonetheless.
I don't think Darth and I have much in common in play style but I agree with almost everything he said, which tells you something I think. While people had strong opinions about the relative merits of H1-H3 the key core mechanics of the game were pretty much the same in all three. All three games were hugely loved and successful. Reach and now H4 have made major changes to the mechanics and the verdict is in: people didn't like them and they're voting with their feet. It's an upsetting fact for those of us who are (were) passionate about the game, but a fact nonetheless.
I will not say people aren't voting against the Halo 4 changes with their feet. I will say that something is up with the FPS population in general. It literally came to me when I was chatting up Thick and Thin a week ago. Halo 4 was still the number two FPS title as of the last XBLive game charts. How could that be with such a pathetic MM population? It doesn't make sense. Does it possibly mean that a huge portion of the gaming population has turned away from FPS in general or does it mean they all ran to COD Blops2? I doubt the latter but I have not a shred of COD pop data.
I will not say people aren't voting against the Halo 4 changes with their feet. I will say that something is up with the FPS population in general. It literally came to me when I was chatting up Thick and Thin a week ago. Halo 4 was still the number two FPS title as of the last XBLive game charts. How could that be with such a pathetic MM population? It doesn't make sense. Does it possibly mean that a huge portion of the gaming population has turned away from FPS in general or does it mean they all ran to COD Blops2? I doubt the latter but I have not a shred of COD pop data.
How about some VERY non-scientific data, but it's from a source that you can see a game's "popularity" at a glance.
I'm talking about Twitch TV. Right now there are 2800+ viewing BO 2 and 215 viewing Halo 4 and you get a quick idea how people are voting. This is not unusual, especially when the more popular Halo streamers like Ninja are not online.
To add insult to injury to the Halo 4 section, almost 100 out of the 215 are watching some dude stream H3.
Other shooters of note that are being streamed right now and the approximate number of viewers:
*Counter-Strike: Global Offensive: 21,000; *Team Fortress 2: 650; BF3: 550; *COD: Modern Warfare: 400
I know, take it with a grain of salt, not very "scientific" - but you get the idea.
I will not say people aren't voting against the Halo 4 changes with their feet. I will say that something is up with the FPS population in general. It literally came to me when I was chatting up Thick and Thin a week ago. Halo 4 was still the number two FPS title as of the last XBLive game charts. How could that be with such a pathetic MM population? It doesn't make sense. Does it possibly mean that a huge portion of the gaming population has turned away from FPS in general or does it mean they all ran to COD Blops2? I doubt the latter but I have not a shred of COD pop data.
How about some VERY non-scientific data, but it's from a source that you can see a game's "popularity" at a glance.
I'm talking about Twitch TV. Right now there are 2800+ viewing BO 2 and 215 viewing Halo 4 and you get a quick idea how people are voting. This is not unusual, especially when the more popular Halo streamers like Ninja are not online.
To add insult to injury to the Halo 4 section, almost 100 out of the 215 are watching some dude stream H3.
Other shooters of note that are being streamed right now and the approximate number of viewers:
*Counter-Strike: Global Offensive: 21,000; *Team Fortress 2: 650; BF3: 550; *COD: Modern Warfare: 400
I know, take it with a grain of salt, not very "scientific" - but you get the idea.
If they are watching, they can't be playing. I guess that would be a factor to consider.
Well there is a third possibility, Halo players that prefer the "traditional" game play style just are not playing anymore and did not go to another fps.
Right now (12:09 pm pst) as I load the Blops2 disc I am showing 269585 people online. Full disclosure, I have no idea if that is total population over all the different platforms it plays on (360, ps4, pc, WIIU). Halo 4 has 22880. So if we take worse case scenerio for blops (divide the pop by the number of possible platforms, even though WiiU is no where near equal) we get 67396 player pop to 22880. (both have campaigns, both have non traditional playlists (like specops/zombies) and both have MM). So those factors are equal over the two titles.
Why is it 3 times more popular. Well personal opinion is that it is easier, has that rpg style system(prest) and very little changes to its core gameplay. Honestly if you were to bought blops 2 and never have played any other version of COD. You would have the same type of gameplay over 4-5 versions. I am leaving out COD and COD 2, since for all intensive purposes things changed from Modern Warfare going
I would also summize that if I take a loot at the populations tonight say around 6 pm pst, I would theorize the cod population would be even greater then the Halo pop, maybe to the tune of around 3.5 to 3.75 times as much.
Honestly this even confuses me as much, do the the blops 2 HORRIFIC MM NET CODE or lag Compensation deal.
This actually is kind of interesting, hopefully I remember to crunch the numbers later tonight.
Not hating on anything but comparing numbers to numbers this is what I am seeing.
I can stop playing CoD for 6 months and go back and have a positive k/d. I can't do that with Halo. For me I feel if I stop playing its hard to come back because of the skill it takes to play. So I imagine it can be very frustrating for new players and its easy for them to see a game like CoD and just over there.
What can 343 do to make you happy? I would love a game like Halo3, it wasn't perfect, but fix the issues and you still have a awesome game. I don't know if that would sell though. 343 seems to be in a pickle how do you make a game that sells and keep your fans happy.
I can stop playing CoD for 6 months and go back and have a positive k/d. I can't do that with Halo. For me I feel if I stop playing its hard to come back because of the skill it takes to play. So I imagine it can be very frustrating for new players and its easy for them to see a game like CoD and just over there.
What can 343 do to make you happy? I would love a game like Halo3, it wasn't perfect, but fix the issues and you still have a awesome game. I don't know if that would sell though. 343 seems to be in a pickle how do you make a game that sells and keep your fans happy.
Fanboys are going to buy the game no matter what and play the campaign religiously. Make multiplayer a separate experience. Blending the two camps isn't going to work without some other serious movement back to its multiplayer roots, and getting things as consistent as possible between the people that take it a little seriously, and the folks that don't. They know how to make a game that sells. They've been doing that since the series' inception. They need to radically alter the multiplayer's philosophy, though.
making a game easier and less polarizing for people that aren't going to play it more than a month anyway is pointless.
I agree. The skill level is what makes Halo great. You can't tell me a first time Starcraft player or League of Legends player doesn't go through some real frustration. They need to stop looking at CoD numbers and do what Dixon said and thats go back to their roots. H3 maintained good population numbers even after MW2 dropped because it was just a really well done game.
making a game easier and less polarizing for people that aren't going to play it more than a month anyway is pointless.
I agree. The skill level is what makes Halo great. You can't tell me a first time Starcraft player or League of Legends player doesn't go through some real frustration. They need to stop looking at CoD numbers and do what Dixon said and thats go back to their roots. H3 maintained good population numbers even after MW2 dropped because it was just a really well done game.
yep, and H3 gave people skill to shoot for. With skill came a tangible number by their name.
The casual gamers have casually walked away by now, so I think its time they fix Halo.
I often read an opposing view. I.E. Halo X is made for casuals and only casuals play it while the competitive crowd has moved on. Maybe the answer is much simpler than both those possibilities. Maybe the people who keep playing are those who like the Halo universe over other game themes and skill has nothing to do with it. Playing in MM is a side effect of that. Bungie and 343i have both stated that unlike others FPS titles, Halo campaign is where the sales are coming from. My wife has her own opinion on why FPS populations are down. Parents are reacting to recent bad news stories and fewer kiddies are playing shooters.
Bungie and 343i have both stated that unlike others FPS titles, Halo campaign is where the sales are coming from.
Interesting then that 343 would nerf the H4 campaign by not providing campaign theater, which for campaign freaks is a major requirement. Add to that the fact they do not provide film rendering for anyone. For those of us with capture cards, the action can be filmed if we happen to be in capture mode, but for the vast majority that is not possible.
I suppose the theory then is that someone is going to buy the game, go thru the campaign, and move on to something else. Nice.
Bungie and 343i have both stated that unlike others FPS titles, Halo campaign is where the sales are coming from.
Interesting then that 343 would nerf the H4 campaign by not providing campaign theater, which for campaign freaks is a major requirement. Add to that the fact they do not provide film rendering for anyone. For those of us with capture cards, the action can be filmed if we happen to be in capture mode, but for the vast majority that is not possible.
I suppose the theory then is that someone is going to buy the game, go thru the campaign, and move on to something else. Nice.
I'll bet thet would have included those features if they had the time. Perhaps SpOps was the extra tilt towards campaign that 343 thought was more important. We may never know. I really miss the campaign films and rendering .
Bungie and 343i have both stated that unlike others FPS titles, Halo campaign is where the sales are coming from.
Interesting then that 343 would nerf the H4 campaign by not providing campaign theater, which for campaign freaks is a major requirement. Add to that the fact they do not provide film rendering for anyone. For those of us with capture cards, the action can be filmed if we happen to be in capture mode, but for the vast majority that is not possible.
I suppose the theory then is that someone is going to buy the game, go thru the campaign, and move on to something else. Nice.
I'll bet thet would have included those features if they had the time. Perhaps SpOps was the extra tilt towards campaign that 343 thought was more important. We may never know. I really miss the campaign films and rendering .
Bungie and 343i have both stated that unlike others FPS titles, Halo campaign is where the sales are coming from.
Interesting then that 343 would nerf the H4 campaign by not providing campaign theater, which for campaign freaks is a major requirement. Add to that the fact they do not provide film rendering for anyone. For those of us with capture cards, the action can be filmed if we happen to be in capture mode, but for the vast majority that is not possible.
I suppose the theory then is that someone is going to buy the game, go thru the campaign, and move on to something else. Nice.
I'll bet thet would have included those features if they had the time. Perhaps SpOps was the extra tilt towards campaign that 343 thought was more important. We may never know. I really miss the campaign films and rendering .
More time huh? Have to launch the game before COD to reign in some extra sales until it's abandoned the following week! Launch now and fix later! If 343 keeps this up, they'll soon start moving into EA territory.
Regardless of who penned the repsonses to the link Hop posted, I think the opinions are reasonable and I'm in agreement with much of what was stated.
Maybe, just maybe, 343 should have taken note of the fact that we don't need new weapons. Remember how excited most of us were, initially, when 343 announced the return of the BR to H4? There was so much love for this iconic weapon, fanboys were singing the praises to 343 for simply announcing it's return.
Now, not so much...lol
Perhaps it's their mentality that Halo needs to be altered, that's caused such a change in the Halo population. COD makes tweaks and changes to their games each year, but for the most part they play in a similar fashion.
Now imagine, you have not played Halo since H2. You load-up H4 and you are greeted with loadouts, armor abilities, sprint, specializations and the many various unlocks. Yeah, Halo has changed - a lot! Think about a similar circumstance where a player that played Modern Warfare, loads up BLOPS 2. I'm thinking the COD player will have the easier transition and find a lot of similarities to the older version.
Both series have changed over time, but I'm thinking Halo has seen more changes to it's fundamentals than COD. Also, it's not that all change is bad, but changing just for the sake of changing or to hand-hold for noobs - well, that's not a good thing. COD has their formula that works. Halo seemed to have one too, but I think these new ingredients need to be removed.
I dunno...most of you won't read this, so just move on to the next post by DEEP or Dixon....gif "88")
There's nothing really wrong with the BR, it's just that there are now other weapons that are in a similar category that outclass it. That, coupled with bigger maps and sprint causes your disappointment.
I don't think Darth and I have much in common in play style but I agree with almost everything he said, which tells you something I think. While people had strong opinions about the relative merits of H1-H3 the key core mechanics of the game were pretty much the same in all three. All three games were hugely loved and successful. Reach and now H4 have made major changes to the mechanics and the verdict is in: people didn't like them and they're voting with their feet. It's an upsetting fact for those of us who are (were) passionate about the game, but a fact nonetheless.
How about some VERY non-scientific data, but it's from a source that you can see a game's "popularity" at a glance.
I'm talking about Twitch TV. Right now there are 2800+ viewing BO 2 and 215 viewing Halo 4 and you get a quick idea how people are voting. This is not unusual, especially when the more popular Halo streamers like Ninja are not online.
To add insult to injury to the Halo 4 section, almost 100 out of the 215 are watching some dude stream H3.
Other shooters of note that are being streamed right now and the approximate number of viewers:
*Counter-Strike: Global Offensive: 21,000; *Team Fortress 2: 650; BF3: 550; *COD: Modern Warfare: 400
I know, take it with a grain of salt, not very "scientific" - but you get the idea.
Well there is a third possibility, Halo players that prefer the "traditional" game play style just are not playing anymore and did not go to another fps.
Right now (12:09 pm pst) as I load the Blops2 disc I am showing 269585 people online. Full disclosure, I have no idea if that is total population over all the different platforms it plays on (360, ps4, pc, WIIU). Halo 4 has 22880. So if we take worse case scenerio for blops (divide the pop by the number of possible platforms, even though WiiU is no where near equal) we get 67396 player pop to 22880. (both have campaigns, both have non traditional playlists (like specops/zombies) and both have MM). So those factors are equal over the two titles.
Why is it 3 times more popular. Well personal opinion is that it is easier, has that rpg style system(prest) and very little changes to its core gameplay. Honestly if you were to bought blops 2 and never have played any other version of COD. You would have the same type of gameplay over 4-5 versions. I am leaving out COD and COD 2, since for all intensive purposes things changed from Modern Warfare going
I would also summize that if I take a loot at the populations tonight say around 6 pm pst, I would theorize the cod population would be even greater then the Halo pop, maybe to the tune of around 3.5 to 3.75 times as much.
Honestly this even confuses me as much, do the the blops 2 HORRIFIC MM NET CODE or lag Compensation deal.
This actually is kind of interesting, hopefully I remember to crunch the numbers later tonight.
Not hating on anything but comparing numbers to numbers this is what I am seeing.
I can stop playing CoD for 6 months and go back and have a positive k/d. I can't do that with Halo. For me I feel if I stop playing its hard to come back because of the skill it takes to play. So I imagine it can be very frustrating for new players and its easy for them to see a game like CoD and just over there.
What can 343 do to make you happy? I would love a game like Halo3, it wasn't perfect, but fix the issues and you still have a awesome game. I don't know if that would sell though. 343 seems to be in a pickle how do you make a game that sells and keep your fans happy.
Fanboys are going to buy the game no matter what and play the campaign religiously. Make multiplayer a separate experience. Blending the two camps isn't going to work without some other serious movement back to its multiplayer roots, and getting things as consistent as possible between the people that take it a little seriously, and the folks that don't. They know how to make a game that sells. They've been doing that since the series' inception. They need to radically alter the multiplayer's philosophy, though.
making a game easier and less polarizing for people that aren't going to play it more than a month anyway is pointless.
I agree. The skill level is what makes Halo great. You can't tell me a first time Starcraft player or League of Legends player doesn't go through some real frustration. They need to stop looking at CoD numbers and do what Dixon said and thats go back to their roots. H3 maintained good population numbers even after MW2 dropped because it was just a really well done game.
yep, and H3 gave people skill to shoot for. With skill came a tangible number by their name.
Along with many of the loyal gamers due to how the game played upon release and the slow fixes issued by 343. Hence the decreasing populations.
Interesting then that 343 would nerf the H4 campaign by not providing campaign theater, which for campaign freaks is a major requirement. Add to that the fact they do not provide film rendering for anyone. For those of us with capture cards, the action can be filmed if we happen to be in capture mode, but for the vast majority that is not possible.
I suppose the theory then is that someone is going to buy the game, go thru the campaign, and move on to something else. Nice.
Shake. Shake, shake, shake.
Honestly I haven't played online in a couple months.
More time huh? Have to launch the game before COD to reign in some extra sales until it's abandoned the following week! Launch now and fix later! If 343 keeps this up, they'll soon start moving into EA territory.