Why "No Sprint" Needs to Be Universal for Halo 5

85 posts / 0 new
Last post
#1 Wed, 08/21/2013 - 15:55
Shadow's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 1 week ago
Joined: 12/10/2007 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 
Wed, 08/21/2013 - 22:13
Dixon_Tufar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 5 months ago
Joined: 12/15/2007 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

I'm fine with getting rid of Sprint.  I mean, we've rehashed it out a few times and spent a lot of time going on about it.  I just think that its funny that Sprint happened, it was made standard, and then we had to have bigger maps to facilitate it.  Then, we got the DMR and strong aim magnetism to compensate for that, all instead of keeping the maps the same size and increasing the base movement; a solution figured out three titles ago.

Thu, 08/22/2013 - 00:14 (Reply to #2)
DCHaloJunkies's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 5 months ago
Joined: 09/16/2007 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

I joked around tonight about an AA that'd let you walk through walls.  Honestly I think sprint is just as bad and maybe worse in a way.  Oh well at least Pit is back.

Thu, 08/22/2013 - 07:46
FreeRadikal's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 07/22/2010 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

The Arms race has begun. Each change to a system changes that system, you tweek here you teek there then everything must be changed. Sprint is when the butterfly flapped her Bungie wings and destroyed an elegant game of standard pace movement, AA's killed the standard number of shots to kill, ordinance drop killed the chess game...all had to be tweeked as new variables were added to a foundation that was not based on variability but on standardization. I contend that if you want a system based on variability it should be a ground up venture not a top down space race of slap it on and pray we don't have to over coat it in nerf dom.

Thu, 08/22/2013 - 09:52 (Reply to #4)
BigBadMike's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 1 month ago
Joined: 07/27/2009 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

FreeRadikal wrote:

The Arms race has begun. Each change to a system changes that system, you tweek here you teek there then everything must be changed. Sprint is when the butterfly flapped her Bungie wings and destroyed an elegant game of standard pace movement, AA's killed the standard number of shots to kill, ordinance drop killed the chess game...all had to be tweeked as new variables were added to a foundation that was not based on variability but on standardization. I contend that if you want a system based on variability it should be a ground up venture not a top down space race of slap it on and pray we don't have to over coat it in nerf dom.

Couldn't have said it better.

Thu, 08/22/2013 - 13:58 (Reply to #5)
LegendcalledJim's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 1 week ago
Joined: 02/13/2009 - 23:00

BigBadMike wrote:

FreeRadikal wrote:

The Arms race has begun. Each change to a system changes that system, you tweek here you teek there then everything must be changed. Sprint is when the butterfly flapped her Bungie wings and destroyed an elegant game of standard pace movement, AA's killed the standard number of shots to kill, ordinance drop killed the chess game...all had to be tweeked as new variables were added to a foundation that was not based on variability but on standardization. I contend that if you want a system based on variability it should be a ground up venture not a top down space race of slap it on and pray we don't have to over coat it in nerf dom.

Couldn't have said it better.

So true.

Fri, 08/23/2013 - 14:24
beaujared's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 years 2 months ago
Joined: 02/22/2011 - 23:00

Free sounds smart

Fri, 08/23/2013 - 16:11 (Reply to #7)
Double T's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 7 months ago
Joined: 08/29/2009 - 23:00

beaujared wrote:

Free sounds smart

The corner store was out of Canadian Mist when he stopped by for his morning fix...

Fri, 08/23/2013 - 15:46
FreeRadikal's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 07/22/2010 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

I miss you Beau!

Sat, 08/24/2013 - 00:30
Lou_Keymia's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 9 months ago
Joined: 07/14/2010 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 
The Pit feels so small thanks to sprint.
Sat, 08/24/2013 - 09:53
LegendcalledJim's picture
Offline
Last seen: 6 years 1 week ago
Joined: 02/13/2009 - 23:00

Sprint doesn't bug me on the Pit. I find the jumps you can do now from top snipe to training and a few others fun and provides a good game flow.

Mon, 08/26/2013 - 10:09
FreeRadikal's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 07/22/2010 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

I think they should drop sprint and add skip.

Mon, 08/26/2013 - 16:50 (Reply to #12)
Dixon_Tufar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 5 months ago
Joined: 12/15/2007 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

FreeRadikal wrote:

I think they should drop sprint and add skip.

 

Maybe "frolic".

Wed, 08/28/2013 - 10:47 (Reply to #13)
GUL74's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 11 months ago
Joined: 02/06/2010 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

Dixon_Tufar wrote:

FreeRadikal wrote:

I think they should drop sprint and add skip.

 

Maybe "frolic".

 

The Monty Python horse gallop 

Wed, 08/28/2013 - 00:39
Lou_Keymia's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 9 months ago
Joined: 07/14/2010 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 
Prancing Spartans!
Wed, 08/28/2013 - 17:31
jtgjr007's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 10 months ago
Joined: 06/21/2005 - 23:00

I think they should remove everything except the BR and drop the movement speed to %70...yes

Thu, 08/29/2013 - 16:44
FreeRadikal's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 2 weeks ago
Joined: 07/22/2010 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

I think they should remove the armor and have halo nude fest.

Fri, 08/30/2013 - 10:05 (Reply to #17)
GUL74's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 11 months ago
Joined: 02/06/2010 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

FreeRadikal wrote:

I think they should remove the armor and have halo nude fest.

at least a loincloth and some war paint 

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 06:35
Vix_Sundown's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 1 month ago
Joined: 08/07/2010 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

It's an unpopular opinion to have, but I actually like sprint. I think it's great, and would never want to go back.

But hell, let's drop it. And since slower is better, how about older Spartans who shoot while driving around on Wal-Mart scooters?

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 14:18 (Reply to #19)
Dixon_Tufar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 5 months ago
Joined: 12/15/2007 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

Vix_Sundown wrote:

It's an unpopular opinion to have, but I actually like sprint. I think it's great, and would never want to go back.

But hell, let's drop it. And since slower is better, how about older Spartans who shoot while driving around on Wal-Mart scooters?

 

I wouldn't say its so unpopular.  I'd just say that making Sprint standard for everyone has some interesting results on the game and the maps.  Out of all my problems with the game, standard Sprint is relatively low on the list.

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 17:03 (Reply to #20)
Double T's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 7 months ago
Joined: 08/29/2009 - 23:00

Dixon_Tufar wrote:

Vix_Sundown wrote:

It's an unpopular opinion to have, but I actually like sprint. I think it's great, and would never want to go back.

But hell, let's drop it. And since slower is better, how about older Spartans who shoot while driving around on Wal-Mart scooters?

 

I wouldn't say its so unpopular.  I'd just say that making Sprint standard for everyone has some interesting results on the game and the maps.  Out of all my problems with the game, standard Sprint is relatively low on the list.

Considering ALL I used in Reach was sprint or evasion, I don't have a problem with it as an armor ability. I DO have a problem making it standard because they felt the need to make the maps larger with too much shit clogging the shooting lanes and sight lines.

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 14:46
Vix_Sundown's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 1 month ago
Joined: 08/07/2010 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

I don't know, man. I don't see too many people with anything positive to say about sprint. Let alone armor abilities, ordnance drops, etc... All of which I actually like. Call me a non-Halo purist since I think Halo 4 is a great game and does not at all suck monkey balls :)

The way I see it, the game has to change and evolve. If nothing ever changes, then you are just paying $60 over and over for the same game, only with different maps. Now which changes are good and which changes are bad, that's what the argument is.

The biggest gripes I've seen about H4 - and for that matter, Reach - is basically that the game is not Halo 3. That pretty much sums it up. Everybody hates sprint. Everybody hates loadouts. Everybody hates armor abilities. So what is the solution then? Just go back to playing Halo 3? Only with a DLC map pack every now and then?

Obviously, the hardcore traditional Halo fans really don't like the changes. And I do see their point. Unfortunately it looks like by trying to make Halo 4 more like COD, all Microsoft has succeeded in doing is turning off the hardcore fans, and driving others to quit playing Halo in favor of COD. I don't know what the solution is. The risk is if you make Halo 5 too much like H3, then you alienate any newer players. How to split the difference?

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 15:12 (Reply to #22)
James's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 4 months ago
Joined: 08/21/2005 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

Vix_Sundown wrote:

I don't know, man. I don't see too many people with anything positive to say about sprint. Let alone armor abilities, ordnance drops, etc... All of which I actually like. Call me a non-Halo purist since I think Halo 4 is a great game and does not at all suck monkey balls :)

If you are looking for positive things said about Halo 4, man you are in the wrong place!  There are some serious haters in this forum. 

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 16:01 (Reply to #23)
Vix_Sundown's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 1 month ago
Joined: 08/07/2010 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

James wrote:

If you are looking for positive things said about Halo 4, man you are in the wrong place!  There are some serious haters in this forum. 

LOL!

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 22:37 (Reply to #24)
Dixon_Tufar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 5 months ago
Joined: 12/15/2007 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

James wrote:

Vix_Sundown wrote:

I don't know, man. I don't see too many people with anything positive to say about sprint. Let alone armor abilities, ordnance drops, etc... All of which I actually like. Call me a non-Halo purist since I think Halo 4 is a great game and does not at all suck monkey balls :)

If you are looking for positive things said about Halo 4, man you are in the wrong place!  There are some serious haters in this forum. 

 

Nah, there are plenty of great things about the game, honestly.  I mean, shit, its a lot better than Reach, for starters.  

 

Still, 7/10.  8/10 if I'm in a generous mood.

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 15:31 (Reply to #25)
DEEP_NNN's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 6 days ago
Joined: 07/03/2005 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

Vix_Sundown wrote:

I don't know, man. I don't see too many people with anything positive to say about sprint. Let alone armor abilities, ordnance drops, etc... All of which I actually like. Call me a non-Halo purist since I think Halo 4 is a great game and does not at all suck monkey balls :)

The way I see it, the game has to change and evolve. If nothing ever changes, then you are just paying $60 over and over for the same game, only with different maps. Now which changes are good and which changes are bad, that's what the argument is.

The biggest gripes I've seen about H4 - and for that matter, Reach - is basically that the game is not Halo 3. That pretty much sums it up. Everybody hates sprint. Everybody hates loadouts. Everybody hates armor abilities. So what is the solution then? Just go back to playing Halo 3? Only with a DLC map pack every now and then?

Obviously, the hardcore traditional Halo fans really don't like the changes. And I do see their point. Unfortunately it looks like by trying to make Halo 4 more like COD, all Microsoft has succeeded in doing is turning off the hardcore fans, and driving others to quit playing Halo in favor of COD. I don't know what the solution is. The risk is if you make Halo 5 too much like H3, then you alienate any newer players. How to split the difference?

No Dixon, Vix is not my Alt account. ;)

People rarely say anything positive. Happy Halo fans play the game and rarely post. I'm one of the few that does. I think it would be a mistake to say Sprint, Armour Abilities or Orndance are generally disliked. The only suggestion Halo 4 is generally disliked, for any reason, is the low population in MM. Nobody can know why it is so low and so soon. I'm guessing its theme has waned for now. It's just as likely kids are playing more cell phone and especially tablet games than chosing not to play Halo 4 over a few sandbox issues. It's widely touted that is the same reason PC sales are way down too.

If you watched the Global FFA Championship finals, Sprint was frequently used by the Pros. As a sandbox mechanic it works and adds visual flavour to the game for both players and viewers. It's well known that you have a delay going from Sprinting to shooting. So I guess the rule of thumb is, be careful. 343i is still collaborating with the competitive crowd these days but I seriously doubt Sprint, AA and Ordnance will be gone in the next Halo. Perhaps incoming Ordnance won't kill people though.

Wed, 09/18/2013 - 06:45 (Reply to #26)
DSmooth's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 week 9 hours ago
Joined: 03/21/2005 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

Yes... What DEEP said...

D

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 16:13
Shadow's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 months 1 week ago
Joined: 12/10/2007 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

simply put the problem with sprint is it kills maps, and gives you one extra button to micro manage.

it makes maps need to be double the size, therefore symmetrical maps go away.  People need things to run to and hide behind, such as random rocks and caves.  You get to hit a button every time you run, which stops your aiming/shooting and takes you out of the fight.  It's pointless.  Take it out, make the maps smaller.  Bring the fighting back.

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 16:14
DCHaloJunkies's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 5 months ago
Joined: 09/16/2007 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

Sprint is supposed to speed up gameplay - and it does in an instant-kill game like COD.  In a game with longer kill-times like Halo, it doesn't.  It allows people to get away (partly because of map design) and the upside of getting back into the fight faster is negated by the larger maps necessary for sprint.  Then there's how map-size jives with the effective range of weapons.

Sprint also randomizes the game to the point that it de-structures the gameplay.  Lose sight of a player for 3 seconds and he could be anywhere on the map.  Add things like jetpacks and random ordinances and you have the 52 card pickup version of Halo.  There's a balancing act of structure for a game to be enjoyable.

That's not to say that sprint will be removed in Halo 5 or that it even needs to be.  It's an interesting mechanic but I just don't think it worked out well in Halo 4 or Reach.  If it doesn't work, fix it or take it out.  Just my opinion.

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 17:32 (Reply to #29)
DEEP_NNN's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 weeks 6 days ago
Joined: 07/03/2005 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

DCHaloJunkies wrote:

Sprint is supposed to speed up gameplay - and it does in an instant-kill game like COD.  In a game with longer kill-times like Halo, it doesn't.  It allows people to get away (partly because of map design) and the upside of getting back into the fight faster is negated by the larger maps necessary for sprint.  Then there's how map-size jives with the effective range of weapons.

Sprint also randomizes the game to the point that it de-structures the gameplay.  Lose sight of a player for 3 seconds and he could be anywhere on the map.  Add things like jetpacks and random ordinances and you have the 52 card pickup version of Halo.  There's a balancing act of structure for a game to be enjoyable.

That's not to say that sprint will be removed in Halo 5 or that it even needs to be.  It's an interesting mechanic but I just don't think it worked out well in Halo 4 or Reach.  If it doesn't work, fix it or take it out.  Just my opinion.

Sprint works for me and I like it. Many do like it. Bungie knew people would like it and 343i jumped on it too. They didn't just randomly include it.

Halo has always been a game about "getting away". That was part of the point of shielding. It created a feedback loop allowing disengagement followed by re-engagement. Take a hit, run away. Now you can run faster with Sprint but so can the pursuer who can also cancel your run with accurate shooting. Sprint doesn't randomize or de-structure so much as it just changes it from what came before by adding enhanced engagement/disengagement opportunities.

Ordnance is another kettle of fish. I could care less how the weapons get on the map but I like the waypoints. The Global FFA Championship proved how interesting weapon waypoint markers can make a game for an audience. I know I was really into the whole, when are are the power weapons up and who will get it first.

Tue, 09/17/2013 - 22:30 (Reply to #30)
Dixon_Tufar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 5 months ago
Joined: 12/15/2007 - 23:00
Currently Playing: 

DEEP_NNN wrote:

DCHaloJunkies wrote:

Sprint is supposed to speed up gameplay - and it does in an instant-kill game like COD.  In a game with longer kill-times like Halo, it doesn't.  It allows people to get away (partly because of map design) and the upside of getting back into the fight faster is negated by the larger maps necessary for sprint.  Then there's how map-size jives with the effective range of weapons.

Sprint also randomizes the game to the point that it de-structures the gameplay.  Lose sight of a player for 3 seconds and he could be anywhere on the map.  Add things like jetpacks and random ordinances and you have the 52 card pickup version of Halo.  There's a balancing act of structure for a game to be enjoyable.

That's not to say that sprint will be removed in Halo 5 or that it even needs to be.  It's an interesting mechanic but I just don't think it worked out well in Halo 4 or Reach.  If it doesn't work, fix it or take it out.  Just my opinion.

Sprint works for me and I like it. Many do like it. Bungie knew people would like it and 343i jumped on it too. They didn't just randomly include it.

Halo has always been a game about "getting away". That was part of the point of shielding. It created a feedback loop allowing disengagement followed by re-engagement. Take a hit, run away. Now you can run faster with Sprint but so can the pursuer who can also cancel your run with accurate shooting. Sprint doesn't randomize or de-structure so much as it just changes it from what came before by adding enhanced engagement/disengagement opportunities.

Ordnance is another kettle of fish. I could care less how the weapons get on the map but I like the waypoints. The Global FFA Championship proved how interesting weapon waypoint markers can make a game for an audience. I know I was really into the whole, when are are the power weapons up and who will get it first.

 

I don't like the waypoints, but I'm willing to overlook their existence.  Why bother having the waypoints if you don't have a way to broadcast gameplay?  I mean, it clearly isn't for folks that subtract two minutes from the game time and can't keep track of a handful of things on the map. 

Join our Universe

Connect with 2o2p