What needs to be done to save H4?

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Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:00
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Gotta agree with you there on the lack of films and online FS.  I have a cap card so i can help peeps out with MM clips, but a lot of neat and funny things are being missed in campaign and SOPS because there is no theater.  Case in point, someone in the clan forum described a really funny glitch in SOPS he encountered where the covies were JUST their weapons moving along on the ground - deadly enemies and hard to kill; would have made a hilarious film, but no theater -- no film.

 

There will always be disagreement on what will improve gameplay and bring back or keep population in the game, be it more (and balanced) maps, a good set of playlists, a little less COD like, and so on, but at least give us a fully functional game!!  What I see now is a game with less functionality than its predecessors.  Seems 343 spent so much time on the stupid stuff they forgot to cover the basics.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 18:50
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LB is right - lacking map variety

DEEP is right - fileshare capabilities

These combine to indicate that 343 has a different definition of "Community" than Bungie did. Too bad, the collaboration and sharing is a big part of what I like most about Halo.

I would spend hours in H3 and Reach fileshare, looking at Most Downloaded and Most Recommended forge maps. I miss having an easy way to find good stuff like that.

Tue, 01/08/2013 - 22:45
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Halo 4 has multiplayer? It would be cool if they had a deal where one team could fight against another team.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 11:11 (Reply to #34)
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SarcasmoJones wrote:

Halo 4 has multiplayer? It would be cool if they had a deal where one team could fight against another team.

 

Well played sir...well played.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 08:46
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My Blame falls on Halo 2... I played that game till I was blue in the face... till shortly before they took the servers down for the damn thing even!  Every halo since then, though each cool in their own way, was in my opinion no where near as good as Halo 2 and I doubt none of them ever will be.  Halo 4 so far is the closest but since halo i've gotten into shooters that are... well some folks call more realistic, I guess that could be used as the term, I just dont enjoy shooters anymore where you got to have a headshot for it to matter and you got to shoot through shields before you can start actually doing any damage, I guess i've just grown out of this type of shooter.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 09:35 (Reply to #36)
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Azalin_Nine wrote:

My Blame falls on Halo 2... I played that game till I was blue in the face... till shortly before they took the servers down for the damn thing even!  Every halo since then, though each cool in their own way, was in my opinion no where near as good as Halo 2 and I doubt none of them ever will be.  Halo 4 so far is the closest but since halo i've gotten into shooters that are... well some folks call more realistic, I guess that could be used as the term, I just dont enjoy shooters anymore where you got to have a headshot for it to matter and you got to shoot through shields before you can start actually doing any damage, I guess i've just grown out of this type of shooter.

This.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 10:12 (Reply to #37)
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Azalin_Nine wrote:

My Blame falls on Halo 2... I played that game till I was blue in the face... till shortly before they took the servers down for the damn thing even!  Every halo since then, though each cool in their own way, was in my opinion no where near as good as Halo 2 and I doubt none of them ever will be.  Halo 4 so far is the closest but since halo i've gotten into shooters that are... well some folks call more realistic, I guess that could be used as the term, I just dont enjoy shooters anymore where you got to have a headshot for it to matter and you got to shoot through shields before you can start actually doing any damage, I guess i've just grown out of this type of shooter.

 

To me, seems like the challenge goes the opposite direction.  Going from games where "i see you first - one trigger pull kill" to "I have to play the map correctly, get in a battle and make every shot count to kill someone" seems to be the more logical transition - but maybe that's just me.  I mean, I guess you could say you've grown in the opposite direction - but seems to me that mostly young players like CoD and older players like Halo.

You say you played Halo 2 to death and blame it for........something?  But now that Halo 4 is more like H2, you don't like the game that you played to death.

Sorry, confused.  cheeky

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 10:33
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We have two map packs left for this game, with three maps per map pack (according to the release schedule).  We're bound to have some stinkers in there, so, what, maybe one or two usable/good maps the rest of the way, with the majority of the maps going the way of Big Team or a Ghost Town-like clusterfuck.  The third map pack in Halo 3 had 8 maps alone, which is one fewer than the entire release schedule of all the scheduled ones in this title.  I thought that one of the lessons we learned from Reach was that we needed more original maps, and not necessarily remakes or maps from Forge.

 

I'd love for them to narrow searches to your particular continent.  If you play in a non-peak hour, you suffer some pretty shitty connections at time, interspersed with some amazing connections because you're host, which means everyone else in the room is suffering greatly if they all have some European accents.  Hell, you see a diffrence in the quality of games if you're East Coast and stay up later and play with predominantly West Coasters.

 

At this point, I haven't played much Halo in the past week or so.  There's exactly one map, Haven, that's worth playing.  The rest of them are all varying degrees of bad. (If you're wondering, Haven......Solace...Adrift....Abandon.......................................Complex...Exile, Ragnarok...................................Longbow, and the other two big ones).  There isn't a single map in the DLC that's usable, which is why I haven't even bought it.  It wouldn't be the first Halo DLC I haven't bought, though.  That goes to Reach.  That's when I stopped buying it reflexively.  That game gets 5 out of 5 rakes.

 

Forge is pretty badly gimped, so is the file sharing.  It's been two months after release, and it still feels like a beta (the Boltshot is pretty overpowered, the primary weapon balance needs a tweak, but I'd completely assume it would need to get tweaked down the road, probably a few times.  It's a nightmare to perfectly balance the BR, DMR, Carbine, LR, and AR).  I completely understand that the people that made this game made a great game at its core, and surrounded it with some crap, and that they put in a TON of long hours and deserved some rest and vacation over the holidays, but maybe a "Hey, we're on vacation now, but we're listening. Here are the things we hear a lot, here are the things we're fixing, here are the things we're looking at, and here are the things we're not fixing" would be great.  Just some kind of dialogue would be amazing right now, because I think a lot of folks are being left out in the cold right now.

 

Yes.  I'm a competitive prick.  I'd like to see ladders and tournaments and to see a lot of the fluff taken out of gameplay, at least for its own separate playlist.  The Virgin gaming thing is a nice try, but it's so bogged down with a lot of needless rules, when all I'd like to see is simply the same ranking system from Halo 3, if they can't come up with anything better.  Shit, the Forge from Halo 3 looks better than what we currently have.

 

Yay for Fiesta Slayer.  At least it isn't Reach, so we have that going for us.

 

Edited to add: I'm sure some folks are burned out.  Hell, look around here.  There are a ton of faces that are missing that would love to be more involved, but the game/developer doesn't seem to want them around.  Again, what 343 says and what they do seem to always be at odds with each other. 

 

Double edited to add: I don't like how the commendations and challenges are handled either. I don't want to see folks slinking around with a pistol, trying to get 9 kills in a game.  Play against me with the best of everything you have and let's see who comes out on top.  Don't gimp yourself because you're trying to get Barbie dress-up points.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 11:41
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I liked Ghost Town.  Seriously.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 11:59 (Reply to #40)
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jonny12gauge wrote:

I liked Ghost Town.  Seriously.

 

Close quarters maps, or clusterfuck maps allow players who usually do poorly in maps with longer sightlines or maps without vehicles, to have more impact.  This is increased even more so if more explosive weapons are on the map.  If you're always boxed in, it's harder to generate a team shot, especially if you're attempting to run and gun it.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 12:10
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HEADS UP PEOPLE, I GO OFF THE RAILS AT THE END OF THIS POST. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

 

We kind of talked about the dlc last night on TnT. DLC by itself cannot save a game. That is kind of why I am putting the emphasis on this next dlc in combination with a tu that has weapon tweaks, file share tweeks, forge tweeks, and considerable playlist tweeks.

 

If they only come out with a dlc (with crappy maps OR maps that are glitched/broken) and try to do multiple TU over the next 4 months to correct the issues, this will do nothing to help drive up the player pop. You will have a bump for the DLC and then a drastic fall off yet again.

 

Games no longer have a lifespan of a year or more. Now they have a lifespan (on the short side) 3-4 months and (one the long side) 6-8 months. Right now we are just in front of the short span time frame to try and keep what you have and to do that it is going to take more then too spread out TU's and a DLC.

 

Just from what I have seen here this is what needs to be done (and not just minor fixes):

Fix forge

Fix file share

Fix saved films

Add the promised Ranking system/competive playlist

Add DLC

Add the other maps THAT ARE ALREADY ON THE DISC

Playlist update

Game Fixes

 

All of the above needs to be out, without issues by the end of Feb.

 

I am also truly tired of the bullshit pr answer of  "be patient guys you will be happy". Keeping in mind this is the same tag line they had months before the release of the game and keep using it. This notion of just trust us, we are developers and we know what is good for you and will get around to it when we feel like it is a big reason what is wrong with the CONSOLE industry right now. In my short stint with the PC gaming I have done over the past year you have developers laying out EXACTLY what is being working on in patches and game updates on the game blog or company blog. And if they can't put something in an upcoming patch they break it down for you, Not give an aswer of "well we just could not put it in at this time, because the unicorns and the Yeti's could not make an appearance". They give direct, consise answers and do not go dark for weeks and months at a time. How about you put your god damn community manager to work giving out the info of what is being worked on, what is NOT and WHY it is not being working on in the weekly update. Instead of posting a f'ing blog demonstrating your ability to stick as many catch phrases or to demostrate your use of a thesaurus and to regale your loyal fans with tales of drunken nights and a three way you had in the local watering hole bathroom with an enviroment designer and a female intern!! YOUR GOD DAMN INSTAGRAM POSTS IN TWITTER OF YOU THROWING BACK THE HOOCH DOES NOT CONVICE ME YOU ARE WORKING ON THE FUCKING GAME

 

I WANT MY GOD DAMN GAME FIXED, SINCERLY A PISSED OF LOYAL FAN!!!

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 12:25 (Reply to #42)
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Lbsutke wrote:
I WANT MY GOD DAMN GAME FIXED, SINCERLY A PISSED OF LOYAL FAN!!!

+1.

Some people interpreted my posts above as that I hate H4.  I don't hate it.  I actually think it has potential (as yet unrealized).  I'm angry at 343 for fucking it up in such an obvious way.   E.g. it's obvious everyone loves Haven.  Give us more maps like Haven YESTERDAY or it's all over.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 13:55 (Reply to #43)
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Lbsutke wrote:

 

I WANT MY GOD DAMN GAME FIXED, SINCERLY A PISSED OF LOYAL FAN!!!

Even with respect to all of your valid complaints, I still expect to be playing this game two years from now. We had as much of a hoot last night as we ever did with previous Halo games. Halo 4 is a keeper, even with all of the issues. I certainly will be happier when some of the issues get fixed. The whole problem of silence from 343i is an odd one. I hope to see that improve over the next few weeks. MS has always been closed mouth.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 14:03 (Reply to #44)
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DEEP_NNN wrote:

Lbsutke wrote:

 

I WANT MY GOD DAMN GAME FIXED, SINCERLY A PISSED OF LOYAL FAN!!!

Even with respect to all of your valid complaints, I still expect to be playing this game two years from now. We had as much of a hoot last night as we ever did with previous Halo games. Halo 4 is a keeper, even with all of the issues. I certainly will be happier when some of the issues get fixed. The whole problem of silence from 343i is an odd one. I hope to see that improve over the next few weeks. MS has always been closed mouth.

 

Deep, I keep telling you this, and you either brush it off or don't understand it: you'd play and love Halo no matter what.  They could have made most any change to the game, or done anything else, but if it was a Halo title, you'd love it.  Case in point: you probably very rarely played Fiesta Slayer, but now, you're playing it exclusively and loving it because it's the new "vanilla". 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 14:18 (Reply to #45)
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Dixon_Tufar wrote:

DEEP_NNN wrote:

Lbsutke wrote:

 

I WANT MY GOD DAMN GAME FIXED, SINCERLY A PISSED OF LOYAL FAN!!!

Even with respect to all of your valid complaints, I still expect to be playing this game two years from now. We had as much of a hoot last night as we ever did with previous Halo games. Halo 4 is a keeper, even with all of the issues. I certainly will be happier when some of the issues get fixed. The whole problem of silence from 343i is an odd one. I hope to see that improve over the next few weeks. MS has always been closed mouth.

 

Deep, I keep telling you this, and you either brush it off or don't understand it: you'd play and love Halo no matter what.  They could have made most any change to the game, or done anything else, but if it was a Halo title, you'd love it.  Case in point: you probably very rarely played Fiesta Slayer, but now, you're playing it exclusively and loving it because it's the new "vanilla". 

I think this is a bit unfair, considering there aren't other options.  If you like and want to play Halo - then you're playing Halo 4.  There is no other option that is Halo.  You can either play it and learn to deal, or you can just quit Halo altogether.  Hopefully there will be updates, I agree - but to berate someone for enjoying the series in good times and bad, rather than throwing down your controller in a tantrum and going to play some WoW or Minecraft or something seems a bit extreme.  Not saying that's what you're doing - but it can sometimes seem like people are spending all their gaming time complaining about what's wrong with the game rather than just playing the game.  Maybe I'm wrong about that, but it does seem so sometimes.

Yeah there are problems with the game.  But I don't think it's as broken as some others do, and I don't constantly bitch about it rather than play it.  If I was to that point, I just wouldn't play it and you wouldn't see me on this board.  I can almost guarantee nothing you say anywhere is going to affect what 343i does, so sure - state your issues, but play the game or spend time doing something else you love more.  Right?

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 14:39 (Reply to #46)
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Dixon_Tufar wrote:

DEEP_NNN wrote:

Lbsutke wrote:

 

I WANT MY GOD DAMN GAME FIXED, SINCERLY A PISSED OF LOYAL FAN!!!

Even with respect to all of your valid complaints, I still expect to be playing this game two years from now. We had as much of a hoot last night as we ever did with previous Halo games. Halo 4 is a keeper, even with all of the issues. I certainly will be happier when some of the issues get fixed. The whole problem of silence from 343i is an odd one. I hope to see that improve over the next few weeks. MS has always been closed mouth.

 

Deep, I keep telling you this, and you either brush it off or don't understand it: you'd play and love Halo no matter what.  They could have made most any change to the game, or done anything else, but if it was a Halo title, you'd love it.  Case in point: you probably very rarely played Fiesta Slayer, but now, you're playing it exclusively and loving it because it's the new "vanilla". 

I'm not as hard core Halo as that. I really am pissed about theatre, fileshares and some Forging issues. Those issues really do drag me down. We played Fiesta style in previous Halo titles and it could be a sign for why some of us like Infinity Slayer. I like getting my hands on a game-over-gun once in awhile. I wish my aquisitions always resulted in more than my suicide. LOL.  I/we like to mix up the games between pure shooters like SWAT, no AA, Infinity and crazy stuff. There is a point where I'd move beyond Halo but we are nowhere near that yet. I don't switch games or game genres like a little kid anymore. Too hard on the head. 

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 12:25
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#HireDrost

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 14:02
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I cetainly agree with the rage of 343 basically taking a month off from updates - especially for such a glitchy game. 

I get they needed a much deserved break but, as mentioned above, drop us a bone and let us know what is happening. Instead we get jack shit and the game has only been out 2 months. 

Bungie was always giving us updates, even if it was just a paragraph or two during the holidays to let us know what was happening. At least we got the feeling something was being done.

Perhaps we were spoiled by Bungie? Do Halo fans expect too much from this new developer? I don't know, but I can't help but feel like 343 has bitten off more than they could chew and released a game that was 80% done. Now, 2 months in and the natives are restless and wanting somebody's head on a stick - not a good sign.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:11
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Dixon, you do understand that fiesta slayer cannot be fixed or removed, right?  All the maps have been set-up for this type of slayer.  You'd have to change the spawn points, the weapon drops, and all that stuff.  MLG used to be good at that stuff (note H3 changes to Narrows/Pit that became mainstream), but now they are so busy arguing about BR/DMR and what a 5% change in jump height does and making their own "competitive" maps that they won't do anything to help.  343 won't change their maps.  So, nobody is working on just taking the core game and making the maps work better.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 16:22
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^^ word.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 17:06
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Maybe its just me, but I think this game is great as a whole. It needs minor tweeks, but I'm a happy customer, and I have been playing since Halo PC. I don't think the BoltShot can be nerfed, as making it a two shot kill makes the weapon a weaker version of the Plasma Pistol. I think a compromise would be its removal altogether. I would like matchmaking custom searches just like everyone else, but I don't feel cheated as a customer.
Wed, 01/09/2013 - 19:27
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 That video doesn't prove much at all.  In fact it only shows what is within outlying areas of the reticule.  This is hardly bullet magnetism and compared to "sweep sniping" from halos past is relatively normal for a console game.  You want skill, play a PC FPS with 0 hit assist.  I swear sometimes people forget they're playing on a Peer-to-peer network and sitting on their coach.  

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 21:16 (Reply to #53)
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admin wrote:

 That video doesn't prove much at all.  In fact it only shows what is within outlying areas of the reticule.  This is hardly bullet magnetism and compared to "sweep sniping" from halos past is relatively normal for a console game.  You want skill, play a PC FPS with 0 hit assist.  I swear sometimes people forget they're playing on a Peer-to-peer network and sitting on their coach.  

 

Of course you're going to have bullet magnetism and aim assist on consoles, that's the only way it can be played due to your thumbs and joysticks not being as accurate as a precision mouse with 2400+dpi.  So that whole argument is redudant.  Second, if you watch the bullets, they curve to the target when it's outside the reticule.  All the past halos, if your reticule wasn't red, it didn't connect.  Maybe the hitboxes grew with the titles, but if it wasn't red, they weren't dead.  Third, if sweep sniping was simple, why was it a rare occurrence to encounter?  Probably because even sweep sniping took skill (like the weapon glitches in H2).  Now go back to your elite pc forums and let us dirty console gamers discuss our aim assist from our couches (I assumed you meant couches and not coaches unless you have some fantasy going on there with the gym teacher).  

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 21:31 (Reply to #54)
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OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:

admin wrote:

 That video doesn't prove much at all.  In fact it only shows what is within outlying areas of the reticule.  This is hardly bullet magnetism and compared to "sweep sniping" from halos past is relatively normal for a console game.  You want skill, play a PC FPS with 0 hit assist.  I swear sometimes people forget they're playing on a Peer-to-peer network and sitting on their coach.  

 

Of course you're going to have bullet magnetism and aim assist on consoles, that's the only way it can be played due to your thumbs and joysticks not being as accurate as a precision mouse with 2400+dpi.  So that whole argument is redudant.  Second, if you watch the bullets, they curve to the target when it's outside the reticule.  All the past halos, if your reticule wasn't red, it didn't connect.  Maybe the hitboxes grew with the titles, but if it wasn't red, they weren't dead.  Third, if sweep sniping was simple, why was it a rare occurrence to encounter?  Probably because even sweep sniping took skill (like the weapon glitches in H2).  Now go back to your elite pc forums and let us dirty console gamers discuss our aim assist from our couches (I assumed you meant couches and not coaches unless you have some fantasy going on there with the gym teacher).  

It's not really redundant.  The video is trying to prove there is "magnetism" in Halo 4 when in reality this is normal for all console games.  I just find it odd someone would try to prove something most people already know.  In fact, in almost every scene he is not truly off target, but instead the reticule is flashing between red/white.  

As for sweep sniping, this was never hard... I'm sure a lot of people in this forum will agree that it was in fact an easier method of play since it limited the need for accuracy by exploiting lag compensation.  Also, no need to get hostile about the PC thing and turn it into something "elite"  or not.  I don't even play FPS on my PC (maybe some farcry 3).  I just find it odd that people talk about some huge change in skill cap when by and large that game is limited by the same issues that all Peer-to-peer games are.  I'd rather shake hands and not rage over Halo or any other game, but then again I'm also really into coaches.  

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 10:32 (Reply to #55)
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admin wrote:

and sitting on their coach.  

 

Couldn't let you bow out without asking about your coach20246

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 10:53 (Reply to #56)
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OldnAchy wrote:

admin wrote:

and sitting on their coach.  

 

Couldn't let you bow out without asking about your coach20246

 

Answer in a previous post.  http://2old2play.com/forum/divisions/halo-series/what-needs-be-done-save-h4-502318?page=1#comment-3615609 

I'm just super into coaches.  

Thu, 01/10/2013 - 10:58 (Reply to #57)
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OldnAchy wrote:

admin wrote:

and sitting on their coach.  

 

Couldn't let you bow out without asking about your coach20246

 

Well what you guys do not know is that Doodi makes so much money off the site, all his furniture is custom made by Coach. So his slip up is actually his own dillusion from living in the lap of luxury.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 20:06
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The stand alone weapon test videos can be quite informative but don't provide reasonable comparison. I.E. We would need similar setups for Halo 1, 2, 3, REACH and Halo 4.

It's the same thing as with the Halocharts population charts. Very interesting on their own but without similar values from previous titles, certain conclusions cannot be drawn. I.E. Halo 4 is performing worse than Halo REACH during the same time period after launch.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 21:14 (Reply to #59)
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DEEP_NNN wrote:

The stand alone weapon test videos can be quite informative but don't provide reasonable comparison. I.E. We would need similar setups for Halo 1, 2, 3, REACH and Halo 4.

It's the same thing as with the Halocharts population charts. Very interesting on their own but without similar values from previous titles, certain conclusions cannot be drawn. I.E. Halo 4 is performing worse than Halo REACH during the same time period after launch.

 

But nobody is comparing them.  All we're saying is that it certainly looks like a large chunk of the user base is gone or going rapidly two months after release.

 

I dunno.  I'd just like to see some kind of explanation or conversation with 343, dammit.

Wed, 01/09/2013 - 22:26 (Reply to #60)
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Dixon_Tufar wrote:

DEEP_NNN wrote:

The stand alone weapon test videos can be quite informative but don't provide reasonable comparison. I.E. We would need similar setups for Halo 1, 2, 3, REACH and Halo 4.

It's the same thing as with the Halocharts population charts. Very interesting on their own but without similar values from previous titles, certain conclusions cannot be drawn. I.E. Halo 4 is performing worse than Halo REACH during the same time period after launch.

 

But nobody is comparing them.  All we're saying is that it certainly looks like a large chunk of the user base is gone or going rapidly two months after release.

 

I dunno.  I'd just like to see some kind of explanation or conversation with 343, dammit.

I would like to see more numbers. Though it's something I don't expect from an MS owned entity. So damn secretive.

Direct comparisons are what we need though. People who care about Halo and their habit of playing it want to know if they are somewhat safe. LB is concerned about the downward slope of the MM population. I am too but I am also steeled by seeing previous similar population degradation trends. Sometimes we just have to wait for the final answer. I have some REACH playlist numbers as you've seen and if Halo 4 drops below that then it will tell us something.

We have to let 343i's plans, preparations and reactions play out.

If I get as much quality time out of Halo 4 as REACH then I'll be satisfied. I don't want three year games like Halo 3 anymore. Even 1 to 1.5 years of service would be fine for me. $60 to $120 for that kind of involved hobby is quite cheap.

 

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