Perhaps we should start doing something like T10's weekly pit-pass report.Except a 2O4F version that would be updated on the main clan page every week or 2. If we've got any writers who'd be interested in giving it a go, just let me know.
On a side note. Lobby setups can be shared in a roundabout way.....
1-Player a sets up his room according to whatever specs are being run. (note...Player b muxt be the 1st person to join the room.
2-Player b joins the lobby.
3-Player a then pulls up his dashboard & hits the "y" button in order to exit game to Xbox dashboard.. (this way the lobby settings remain intact when he leaves)
4-Player b then gains control of lobby with settings in place. He can then go into game setup & save said settings.
Great tip Cotter, one of those D'oh it's obvious moments LOL
One of my favorite casual things we would run was the theme night. Not sure if this is still being done, but we'd select a manufacturer then start running the cars in stock form. This kept everyone in identical cars but also offered a variety of cars througout the night, and since they were stock tunes didn't matter. If I recall these races got a lot of postive feedback from those involved.
One of my favorite casual things we would run was the theme night. Not sure if this is still being done, but we'd select a manufacturer then start running the cars in stock form. This kept everyone in identical cars but also offered a variety of cars througout the night, and since they were stock tunes didn't matter. If I recall these races got a lot of postive feedback from those involved.
One of my favorite casual things we would run was the theme night. Not sure if this is still being done, but we'd select a manufacturer then start running the cars in stock form. This kept everyone in identical cars but also offered a variety of cars througout the night, and since they were stock tunes didn't matter. If I recall these races got a lot of postive feedback from those involved.
Nice idea, I will add that one to ideas brewing
And in the settings you can set it to "Force Stock Tuning". This will allow people to either pluck one out of the dealership, or allow those that have the car, run the one out of thier garage w/ thier custom paint. If any tuning was done to the car, it's reverted to stock for the race (no actual changes made to the car itself in the garage).
El Kochino, I share your thoughts nearly exactly. I can't stand open rooms where you just run whatever. I too do not have time to have all sorts of builds in all classes for different tracks. I guess I like structure.
I share your sentiments about ProAm too. It can be fun but the level of cars and talent has jumped way up. The driving can be very aggressive as well. Both of these points make it hard for rookies to get into it and stay there.
Last night we had another vintage racing night. Even though I had a hard time controlling them due to lack of practice, I had a blast. No assists (for me), forced cockpit view and using the clutch pedal and H shifter is what made it fun for me. I look forward to those races and hope i can practice a little more for next week. It is really relaxed. The next series of cars have a bunch to choose from and they are tuned rather well by Snappy Dee. Would be nice to see some others join in.
Also an option, TonyD ran Aussie V-8's one night with a ridiculous HP reduction, also based on a STOCK car, so you got all the normal STOCK handling without the high HP, was only 200-250HP I think, which might have been a tad low as they tried to stall off the line, but once rolling were awesome handling.
Simmer down. Simmer down now! Parcells fails to see the problem, if in fact there is one? There is nothing we can do to prevent people leaving for what could be any number of reasons so stop trying to fix something you cannot. Read differently stop stressing out over something out of your control. I’m pretty sure WE are not driving people away so it must be something other than what we are doing on-line and on this forum. It is a thankless job trying to organize this site and to some extent many of the events so knowing you cannot please everyone all of the time don’t sweat the small stuff.
Case in Point. Above, some people are recommending we run more informal races running strictly stock (untuned) cars but some people don’t like running stock cars. On the other hand there are people requesting we run more informal races using top of the class cars but some people don’t like running these either so you simply can’t win.
swhite014 wrote:
A lot of people will say "all you need to do is ask/look for the answers on here and all of the help/information you need is available". Some people just won't do this, so will miss out.
Exactly!!!! And that is their problem, not ours. I fail to see the organizational problems with this site. Anyone with half a brain and all of ten minutes to browse the forum can easily figure out how things are organized around here. We have a sub-forum at the top labelled “Racing Events and Series Information”…what exactly do morons think is contained within this thread? Lo and behold it contains information about all our organized events surprise surprise. At the top of this sub-forum there is a stickied and very appropriately named thread titled “2O4F Event Schedule” Here we have an easy to use calendar that clearly shows all our organized events AND each has a hyper-link to the corresponding master thread for each series where the details of each event are again clearly spelled out. If people have further questions they can post there question and it will be answered.
With respect to organized events anyone who complains about not knowing what we run either just likes to complain or isn’t willing to put in the minimal effort (and this is about as minimal as it gets) to look around and figure it out in their own. Probably sounds harsh but these are the lazy and/or stupid people that Parcells would prefer not to race with.
KnightofRedemption wrote:
The newer and slower drivers run in the Privateer Room...
Excuse me. Up until today you’ve been earning Parcells respect Knight but how dare you call me slow you bastard you.
Simmer down. Simmer down now! Parcells fails to see the problem, if in fact there is one? There is nothing we can do to prevent people leaving for what could be any number of reasons so stop trying to fix something you cannot. Read differently stop stressing out over something out of your control. I’m pretty sure WE are not driving people away so it must be something other than what we are doing on-line and on this forum. It is a thankless job trying to organize this site and to some extent many of the events so knowing you cannot please everyone all of the time don’t sweat the small stuff.
Case in Point. Above, some people are recommending we run more informal races running strictly stock (untuned) cars but some people don’t like running stock cars. On the other hand there are people requesting we run more informal races using top of the class cars but some people don’t like running these either so you simply can’t win.
swhite014 wrote:
A lot of people will say "all you need to do is ask/look for the answers on here and all of the help/information you need is available". Some people just won't do this, so will miss out.
Exactly!!!! And that is their problem, not ours. I fail to see the organizational problems with this site. Anyone with half a brain and all of ten minutes to browse the forum can easily figure out how things are organized around here. We have a sub-forum at the top labelled “Racing Events and Series Information”…what exactly do morons think is contained within this thread? Lo and behold it contains information about all our organized events surprise surprise. At the top of this sub-forum there is a stickied and very appropriately named thread titled “2O4F Event Schedule” Here we have an easy to use calendar that clearly shows all our organized events AND each has a hyper-link to the corresponding master thread for each series where the details of each event are again clearly spelled out. If people have further questions they can post there question and it will be answered.
With respect to organized events anyone who complains about not knowing what we run either just likes to complain or isn’t willing to put in the minimal effort (and this is about as minimal as it gets) to look around and figure it out in their own. Probably sounds harsh but these are the lazy and/or stupid people that Parcells would prefer not to race with.
KnightofRedemption wrote:
The newer and slower drivers run in the Privateer Room...
Excuse me. Up until today you’ve been earning Parcells respect Knight but how dare you call me slow you bastard you.
I'm sorry Parcells, he called you slower, kinda implies an increase in age, decrease in grey cells, or simply an inability to keep up...but he didn't call you slow.
Parcells, you are right and wrong at the same time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with holding the hand of a newcomer until they find there feet, and there are things we can do to help that..It was done for me...But, and it's a big but...(he he never get tired of that) I asked, being forum literate I knew what looked like a tight clique of insular people were far from it.
It is bewildering when you first arrive, what is a novice? an amateur? a pro? who tells you what your are? how do you move from one to the other. What races am I welcome in. Are there series designed for beginners. Who do you turn to to get these answers. What on earth are those google spreadsheets? is there anything for the casual racer? The questions facing a newcomer are endless. Some I still don't now the answer to and there is no obvious place to ask them.
I have done my best to create something that is definably and obviously aimed at beginners, it did not exist when I arrived, and already I have people saying it helped them not only improve but assisted the decision to stay. Not saying bully for me rather, look, there is a space that needs filling.
I started this thread not because I thought there was some kind of crisis. I started it to see if there was anything else I could do to assist that I hadn't thought of. Get folk to tell me why and maybe I would find another space that needed filling. Along the line that changed, the thread became a sounding board for all kind of other things, the very fact it has had so much response give lie to the idea that everything in hunky dory and what's the fuss about.
No we cannot please all the people all the time, that is not the point. We can endeavor to empower people to please themselves.
Edit...Oh! yeah you ended up in the Privateers 'cause you were SLOW LOL As did I
I had a big long response all typed out, but I deleted it because I couldn't make it sound positive.
In summation: While having amateur/rookie events are great, don't make your fastest guys feel excluded. When they're gone you'll miss them. I owe so much of my knowledge to Clay, Basher, Tourni, Cotter, Gizzie, Fantomas, KIWI, and all of those guys that consistently showed me that I have more to learn. Whether they helped me directly, or only through watching their replays I owe them so much. Not having them on the grid is a huge loss to me.
I had a big long response all typed out, but I deleted it because I couldn't make it sound positive.
In summation: While having amateur/rookie events are great, don't make your fastest guys feel excluded. When they're gone you'll miss them. I owe so much of my knowledge to Clay, Basher, Tourni, Cotter, Gizzie, Fantomas, KIWI, and all of those guys that consistently showed me that I have more to learn. Whether they helped me directly, or only through watching their replays I owe them so much. Not having them on the grid is a huge loss to me.
For sure Pap, but to be fair it's up to them to take care of there own stuff, I am totally indebted to the folk that have helped me, but there is no point in me throwing my energies into events aimed the the top drivers. When I tried the idea of handicaps so they could run with the rookies I got a negative response. Fair enough, not complaining at all and in the case of my event it has become another Pro/Am type event. So I am coming from the view point of a newer member looking to help those coming in behind me by trying to supply stuff I wished had been here when I started. I know that Cotter and Tourni are always saying if you want help just ask, but by no fault of there own they have a kind of Demi god status here, that can be quite intimidating for a rookie. But in my Saturday event they are with other rookies all learning together and I think that is more accessible and less intimidating for folk.
There is no general push by me to make this the dominant focus of either 2O4F or the forum, just mine for the moment.
If there is a need for a pro series/event then someone should go ahead and create one. I see nothing wrong with elite races, just as there is nothing wrong with rookie races. Yes it is great to share the track with the pro's and I hope you and they continue to help with my fledgling race school. In a year or so I hope to be fighting on track with the fast guys. Then I will be looking at creating events to get me on track with them, and no doubt making a noise on the forum saying there is something missing for us Pro drivers. I am not excluding them, I am trying to help create more of them
I think the in game clubs are beginning to suffer from inactivity, strictly from a club point of view. I know when I hit the club invite, I don't get near the response I did, and that was probably from the initial growth, but it would indicate we need to draw it back up a bit.
I know I'm East Coast but I almost fit into Euro schedules at times, almost...and the West Coast guys don't get going until 10pm herebots, and that's too late fer me. You'd think CST would work but I don't see much from that group...
I think the in game clubs are beginning to suffer from inactivity, strictly from a club point of view. I know when I hit the club invite, I don't get near the response I did, and that was probably from the initial growth, but it would indicate we need to draw it back up a bit.
I know I'm East Coast but I almost fit into Euro schedules at times, almost...and the West Coast guys don't get going until 10pm herebots, and that's too late fer me. You'd think CST would work but I don't see much from that group...
The 100 person limit hurts, as well as splinter clubs. I'm not saying people can't join their satellite clubs because of course they can, but it does hurt the main group. There are a lot of members that, while still part of 2O4F, belong to other clubs. When I see those folks on my friends list playing Forza I don't bother them because I always assume that they're doing something with their other club.
If there is a feature of FM4 that sounded awesome on paper, yet fails in practice, it's the clubs.
I think the in game clubs are beginning to suffer from inactivity, strictly from a club point of view. I know when I hit the club invite, I don't get near the response I did, and that was probably from the initial growth, but it would indicate we need to draw it back up a bit.
I know I'm East Coast but I almost fit into Euro schedules at times, almost...and the West Coast guys don't get going until 10pm herebots, and that's too late fer me. You'd think CST would work but I don't see much from that group...
The 100 person limit hurts, as well as splinter clubs. I'm not saying people can't join their satellite clubs because of course they can, but it does hurt the main group. There are a lot of members that, while still part of 2O4F, belong to other clubs. When I see those folks on my friends list playing Forza I don't bother them because I always assume that they're doing something with their other club.
If there is a feature of FM4 that sounded awesome on paper, yet fails in practice, it's the clubs.
+1 on the club side pap. Its as if it has fragmentated the club an we need to regroup :)
I think the in game clubs are beginning to suffer from inactivity, strictly from a club point of view. I know when I hit the club invite, I don't get near the response I did, and that was probably from the initial growth, but it would indicate we need to draw it back up a bit.
I know I'm East Coast but I almost fit into Euro schedules at times, almost...and the West Coast guys don't get going until 10pm herebots, and that's too late fer me. You'd think CST would work but I don't see much from that group...
The 100 person limit hurts, as well as splinter clubs. I'm not saying people can't join their satellite clubs because of course they can, but it does hurt the main group. There are a lot of members that, while still part of 2O4F, belong to other clubs. When I see those folks on my friends list playing Forza I don't bother them because I always assume that they're doing something with their other club.
If there is a feature of FM4 that sounded awesome on paper, yet fails in practice, it's the clubs.
+1 on the club side pap. Its as if it has fragmentated the club an we need to regroup :)
I may be being obtuse, but I feel that is more a perception than a reality, I have as many US members on my friend list as EU. What does seem to have happened is some older members have become burned out, disillusioned, or fed up with Forza or have moved over to PC. There is an influx of new folk reinventing the wheel. Folk are missing their old friends and looking for a reason they are not there. It's not because of the clubs, take the EUSL or the STCC, EU and US clubs racing together. It may be more an issue of the US full stop, we only have one EU club so it could be we just don't see the problem because we don't have it. I had a look through the 2O2E club list and yes a few folk I have never seen here on in game stood out, not a huge amount and like here culling them wont really change any thing...Garage could do with a bit of tidying though you 2O2E club leader types
I think the in game clubs are beginning to suffer from inactivity, strictly from a club point of view. I know when I hit the club invite, I don't get near the response I did, and that was probably from the initial growth, but it would indicate we need to draw it back up a bit.
I know I'm East Coast but I almost fit into Euro schedules at times, almost...and the West Coast guys don't get going until 10pm herebots, and that's too late fer me. You'd think CST would work but I don't see much from that group...
The 100 person limit hurts, as well as splinter clubs. I'm not saying people can't join their satellite clubs because of course they can, but it does hurt the main group. There are a lot of members that, while still part of 2O4F, belong to other clubs. When I see those folks on my friends list playing Forza I don't bother them because I always assume that they're doing something with their other club.
If there is a feature of FM4 that sounded awesome on paper, yet fails in practice, it's the clubs.
+1 on the club side pap. Its as if it has fragmentated the club an we need to regroup :)
I may be being obtuse, but I feel that is more a perception than a reality, I have as many US members on my friend list as EU. What does seem to have happened is some older members have become burned out, disillusioned, or fed up with Forza or have moved over to PC. There is an influx of new folk reinventing the wheel. Folk are missing their old friends and looking for a reason they are not there. It's not because of the clubs, take the EUSL or the STCC, EU and US clubs racing together. It may be more an issue of the US full stop, we only have one EU club so it could be we just don't see the problem because we don't have it. I had a look through the 2O2E club list and yes a few folk I have never seen here on in game stood out, not a huge amount and like here culling them wont really change any thing...Garage could do with a bit of tidying though you 2O2E club leader types
I'm not talking about people that have stopped playing. I'm talking about people that still play, but when I see them online I assume they are doing something with their other clubs so I don't bother them.
New people that stuck around after the first couple months? I don't think there's that many. Off the top of my head there's you, steivie, skiwi, shadders and dagger. Not really sure what other new drivers there are...
I'm not talking about people that have stopped playing. I'm talking about people that still play, but when I see them online I assume they are doing something with their other clubs so I don't bother them.
Feel free to harrass me whenever.
So it occured to me that I never mentioned my reasoning for leaving the 204F (2oldWest) club. I bailed out of the 204F club because I got tired of all the messages (Yadda yadda shared a car. Yadda yadda blah blah), upwards of 50 a day when it was recently released. I started up garageGBR for those of us in GBR to fall back to that were getting tired of all the message box maintenance. As it is, the GBR FM4 club (in game club anyways) is really nothing more than a place holder (hell, we don't even have any shared cars ). Everything I need is here on the forums, plus most of the guys I typically (and most enjoy) race with are scattered amongst all the other clubs out there anyways (which made the 4 clubs impractical for me). The 2O4F forums here at 2O2P have been (and always will be) my cornerstone for Forza/GT5/Dirt/RacePro.
I'm not talking about people that have stopped playing. I'm talking about people that still play, but when I see them online I assume they are doing something with their other clubs so I don't bother them.
Feel free to harrass me whenever.
So it occured to me that I never mentioned my reasoning for leaving the 204F (2oldWest) club. I bailed out of the 204F club because I got tired of all the messages (Yadda yadda shared a car. Yadda yadda blah blah), upwards of 50 a day when it was recently released. I started up garageGBR for those of us in GBR to fall back to that were getting tired of all the message box maintenance. As it is, the GBR FM4 club (in game club anyways) is really nothing more than a place holder (hell, we don't even have any shared cars ). Everything I need is here on the forums, plus most of the guys I typically (and most enjoy) race with are scattered amongst all the other clubs out there anyways (which made the 4 clubs impractical for me). The 2O4F forums here at 2O2P have been (and always will be) my cornerstone for Forza/GT5/Dirt/RacePro.
And this brings me back to the fact we need to draw it in a bit. I'm in the East club and I don't get any "shared car" messages anymore, one here, one there, it's died...
To our benefit though, we've had some great tuning going on and passed around without the club garages, so maybe we need to simply wean off the damn things completely.
Iam getting the feeling we are going round in circles here :s
May be admins should have a get together and listin to what cotter would like to do and decide from there on what action is needed. If any?
Still shoping btw. Just having a Big Mac :)
Iam getting the feeling we are going round in circles here :s May be admins should have a get together and listin to what cotter would like to do and decide from there on what action is needed. If any? Still shoping btw. Just having a Big Mac :)
Well, some of us LIKE to go 'round in circles, we just do it right side up...
I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing, as some seem to like it, I know I do, and I hope that something will be shuffled 'round in a reasonable way fairly soon, and that's all I'm gonna do.
I might pop in on Knight and listen to him cuss that Dodge Viper, heee heee...
Mate I will make a point of doing more practice in a lobby, and if people drop by they can join the track and give me something to chase or we can just have fun. Most things going on seem to be inter club, yes there is a US EU split with some overlap but that's a timezone thing. There is an idea in the works to assist folk knowing who is doing what when, that I think will help. But it's not mine so I don't what to steal someone else's thunder.
Looking through this thread there are no insurmountable problems, a little tinkering here and there is all. I will be shooting you a PM later for some help on the FLC nothing major just a couple of questions you may be able to answer for me
Edit, somehow missed your last pararaph...yeah that sounds about right. kinda why I started the thread.
I have read all of the above posts and the only thing that my brain can retain is the constant reference to how slow Parcells is. That says a lot about me I think.
P.S No fear of me leaving, sorry if this disappoints anyone.
I have read all of the above posts and the only thing that my brain can retain is the constant reference to how slow Parcells is. That says a lot about me I think.
P.S No fear of me leaving, sorry if this disappoints anyone.
Well I think the thread...or what the thread turned into has run it's course, over 700 views and 80 odd posts in just over 24 hours, sure shows something...anyhow nothing that has come up is really a problem, a little tinkering here and there with forum and clubs that was all on the cards anyway. Other issues just require a little more active creation from some sections to get what they want.
It is impossible for me to comment on what was here before, I can only respond to what I see now, and then only on what happens when I am awake. 2O2E is going strong, some dead weight among the registered members but also a good bunch of active and proactive people...and Fitzy who must have some kind of category all of his own. We have track nights, several series running, about to run and being planned and the odd random get together, it's all good.
And when all is said and done I'm just a member of 2O4E , with a talent it seems for putting cats among pigeons. Everything I have said is just my opinion no more influential than that of anyone else.
In the last forum I put up some advise for new members...I guess I'd been a member about a month. In short it boiled down to...Don't sit back and do and say nothing, get stuck in, ask for help. The more you put, in the more you get out.
I don't think that applies to new members alone. It applies to everyone. I'm not saying everyone should be rushing around creating endless series that would be silly, but if your missing a bit of casual racing, let folk know you'll be on and when.
So that's Knight done, I have spent all day here and got in very little racing...Thanks for all caring enough to comment and share your thoughts, it proves there is passion and commitment to continuing to make this club just the best thing since sliced bread...
Ah thats better...All got a bit serious. Oldschool you should hear me driving that hunk of junk, the air turns blue. I'm going to have to turn my mic off on the night.
Great tip Cotter, one of those D'oh it's obvious moments LOL
One of my favorite casual things we would run was the theme night. Not sure if this is still being done, but we'd select a manufacturer then start running the cars in stock form. This kept everyone in identical cars but also offered a variety of cars througout the night, and since they were stock tunes didn't matter. If I recall these races got a lot of postive feedback from those involved.
Nice idea, I will add that one to ideas brewing
And in the settings you can set it to "Force Stock Tuning". This will allow people to either pluck one out of the dealership, or allow those that have the car, run the one out of thier garage w/ thier custom paint. If any tuning was done to the car, it's reverted to stock for the race (no actual changes made to the car itself in the garage).
El Kochino, I share your thoughts nearly exactly. I can't stand open rooms where you just run whatever. I too do not have time to have all sorts of builds in all classes for different tracks. I guess I like structure.
I share your sentiments about ProAm too. It can be fun but the level of cars and talent has jumped way up. The driving can be very aggressive as well. Both of these points make it hard for rookies to get into it and stay there.
Last night we had another vintage racing night. Even though I had a hard time controlling them due to lack of practice, I had a blast. No assists (for me), forced cockpit view and using the clutch pedal and H shifter is what made it fun for me. I look forward to those races and hope i can practice a little more for next week. It is really relaxed. The next series of cars have a bunch to choose from and they are tuned rather well by Snappy Dee. Would be nice to see some others join in.
Also an option, TonyD ran Aussie V-8's one night with a ridiculous HP reduction, also based on a STOCK car, so you got all the normal STOCK handling without the high HP, was only 200-250HP I think, which might have been a tad low as they tried to stall off the line, but once rolling were awesome handling.
Simmer down. Simmer down now! Parcells fails to see the problem, if in fact there is one? There is nothing we can do to prevent people leaving for what could be any number of reasons so stop trying to fix something you cannot. Read differently stop stressing out over something out of your control. I’m pretty sure WE are not driving people away so it must be something other than what we are doing on-line and on this forum. It is a thankless job trying to organize this site and to some extent many of the events so knowing you cannot please everyone all of the time don’t sweat the small stuff.
Case in Point. Above, some people are recommending we run more informal races running strictly stock (untuned) cars but some people don’t like running stock cars. On the other hand there are people requesting we run more informal races using top of the class cars but some people don’t like running these either so you simply can’t win.
Exactly!!!! And that is their problem, not ours. I fail to see the organizational problems with this site. Anyone with half a brain and all of ten minutes to browse the forum can easily figure out how things are organized around here. We have a sub-forum at the top labelled “Racing Events and Series Information”…what exactly do morons think is contained within this thread? Lo and behold it contains information about all our organized events surprise surprise. At the top of this sub-forum there is a stickied and very appropriately named thread titled “2O4F Event Schedule” Here we have an easy to use calendar that clearly shows all our organized events AND each has a hyper-link to the corresponding master thread for each series where the details of each event are again clearly spelled out. If people have further questions they can post there question and it will be answered.
With respect to organized events anyone who complains about not knowing what we run either just likes to complain or isn’t willing to put in the minimal effort (and this is about as minimal as it gets) to look around and figure it out in their own. Probably sounds harsh but these are the lazy and/or stupid people that Parcells would prefer not to race with.
Excuse me. Up until today you’ve been earning Parcells respect Knight but how dare you call me slow you bastard you.
I know, right!
My peoples will send Parcells' peoples some contractual papers. This travesty has got to stop!
I'm sorry Parcells, he called you slower, kinda implies an increase in age, decrease in grey cells, or simply an inability to keep up...but he didn't call you slow.
LOL Well said Oldschool.
Parcells, you are right and wrong at the same time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with holding the hand of a newcomer until they find there feet, and there are things we can do to help that..It was done for me...But, and it's a big but...(he he never get tired of that) I asked, being forum literate I knew what looked like a tight clique of insular people were far from it.
It is bewildering when you first arrive, what is a novice? an amateur? a pro? who tells you what your are? how do you move from one to the other. What races am I welcome in. Are there series designed for beginners. Who do you turn to to get these answers. What on earth are those google spreadsheets? is there anything for the casual racer? The questions facing a newcomer are endless. Some I still don't now the answer to and there is no obvious place to ask them.
I have done my best to create something that is definably and obviously aimed at beginners, it did not exist when I arrived, and already I have people saying it helped them not only improve but assisted the decision to stay. Not saying bully for me rather, look, there is a space that needs filling.
I started this thread not because I thought there was some kind of crisis. I started it to see if there was anything else I could do to assist that I hadn't thought of. Get folk to tell me why and maybe I would find another space that needed filling. Along the line that changed, the thread became a sounding board for all kind of other things, the very fact it has had so much response give lie to the idea that everything in hunky dory and what's the fuss about.
No we cannot please all the people all the time, that is not the point. We can endeavor to empower people to please themselves.
Edit...Oh! yeah you ended up in the Privateers 'cause you were SLOW LOL As did I
Now, THERE, I do believe he called you slow...
I had a big long response all typed out, but I deleted it because I couldn't make it sound positive.
In summation: While having amateur/rookie events are great, don't make your fastest guys feel excluded. When they're gone you'll miss them. I owe so much of my knowledge to Clay, Basher, Tourni, Cotter, Gizzie, Fantomas, KIWI, and all of those guys that consistently showed me that I have more to learn. Whether they helped me directly, or only through watching their replays I owe them so much. Not having them on the grid is a huge loss to me.
For sure Pap, but to be fair it's up to them to take care of there own stuff, I am totally indebted to the folk that have helped me, but there is no point in me throwing my energies into events aimed the the top drivers. When I tried the idea of handicaps so they could run with the rookies I got a negative response. Fair enough, not complaining at all and in the case of my event it has become another Pro/Am type event. So I am coming from the view point of a newer member looking to help those coming in behind me by trying to supply stuff I wished had been here when I started. I know that Cotter and Tourni are always saying if you want help just ask, but by no fault of there own they have a kind of Demi god status here, that can be quite intimidating for a rookie. But in my Saturday event they are with other rookies all learning together and I think that is more accessible and less intimidating for folk.
There is no general push by me to make this the dominant focus of either 2O4F or the forum, just mine for the moment.
If there is a need for a pro series/event then someone should go ahead and create one. I see nothing wrong with elite races, just as there is nothing wrong with rookie races. Yes it is great to share the track with the pro's and I hope you and they continue to help with my fledgling race school. In a year or so I hope to be fighting on track with the fast guys. Then I will be looking at creating events to get me on track with them, and no doubt making a noise on the forum saying there is something missing for us Pro drivers. I am not excluding them, I am trying to help create more of them
I think the in game clubs are beginning to suffer from inactivity, strictly from a club point of view. I know when I hit the club invite, I don't get near the response I did, and that was probably from the initial growth, but it would indicate we need to draw it back up a bit.
I know I'm East Coast but I almost fit into Euro schedules at times, almost...and the West Coast guys don't get going until 10pm herebots, and that's too late fer me. You'd think CST would work but I don't see much from that group...
The 100 person limit hurts, as well as splinter clubs. I'm not saying people can't join their satellite clubs because of course they can, but it does hurt the main group. There are a lot of members that, while still part of 2O4F, belong to other clubs. When I see those folks on my friends list playing Forza I don't bother them because I always assume that they're doing something with their other club.
If there is a feature of FM4 that sounded awesome on paper, yet fails in practice, it's the clubs.
I may be being obtuse, but I feel that is more a perception than a reality, I have as many US members on my friend list as EU. What does seem to have happened is some older members have become burned out, disillusioned, or fed up with Forza or have moved over to PC. There is an influx of new folk reinventing the wheel. Folk are missing their old friends and looking for a reason they are not there. It's not because of the clubs, take the EUSL or the STCC, EU and US clubs racing together. It may be more an issue of the US full stop, we only have one EU club so it could be we just don't see the problem because we don't have it. I had a look through the 2O2E club list and yes a few folk I have never seen here on in game stood out, not a huge amount and like here culling them wont really change any thing...Garage could do with a bit of tidying though you 2O2E club leader types
I'm not talking about people that have stopped playing. I'm talking about people that still play, but when I see them online I assume they are doing something with their other clubs so I don't bother them.
New people that stuck around after the first couple months? I don't think there's that many. Off the top of my head there's you, steivie, skiwi, shadders and dagger. Not really sure what other new drivers there are...
Feel free to harrass me whenever.
So it occured to me that I never mentioned my reasoning for leaving the 204F (2oldWest) club. I bailed out of the 204F club because I got tired of all the messages (Yadda yadda shared a car. Yadda yadda blah blah), upwards of 50 a day when it was recently released. I started up garageGBR for those of us in GBR to fall back to that were getting tired of all the message box maintenance. As it is, the GBR FM4 club (in game club anyways) is really nothing more than a place holder (hell, we don't even have any shared cars
). Everything I need is here on the forums, plus most of the guys I typically (and most enjoy) race with are scattered amongst all the other clubs out there anyways (which made the 4 clubs impractical for me). The 2O4F forums here at 2O2P have been (and always will be) my cornerstone for Forza/GT5/Dirt/RacePro.
And this brings me back to the fact we need to draw it in a bit. I'm in the East club and I don't get any "shared car" messages anymore, one here, one there, it's died...
To our benefit though, we've had some great tuning going on and passed around without the club garages, so maybe we need to simply wean off the damn things completely.
Well, some of us LIKE to go 'round in circles, we just do it right side up...
I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing, as some seem to like it, I know I do, and I hope that something will be shuffled 'round in a reasonable way fairly soon, and that's all I'm gonna do.
I might pop in on Knight and listen to him cuss that Dodge Viper, heee heee...
Mate I will make a point of doing more practice in a lobby, and if people drop by they can join the track and give me something to chase or we can just have fun. Most things going on seem to be inter club, yes there is a US EU split with some overlap but that's a timezone thing. There is an idea in the works to assist folk knowing who is doing what when, that I think will help. But it's not mine so I don't what to steal someone else's thunder.
Looking through this thread there are no insurmountable problems, a little tinkering here and there is all. I will be shooting you a PM later for some help on the FLC nothing major just a couple of questions you may be able to answer for me
Edit, somehow missed your last pararaph...yeah that sounds about right. kinda why I started the thread.
I have read all of the above posts and the only thing that my brain can retain is the constant reference to how slow Parcells is. That says a lot about me I think.
P.S No fear of me leaving, sorry if this disappoints anyone.
I keed!
Well I think the thread...or what the thread turned into has run it's course, over 700 views and 80 odd posts in just over 24 hours, sure shows something...anyhow nothing that has come up is really a problem, a little tinkering here and there with forum and clubs that was all on the cards anyway. Other issues just require a little more active creation from some sections to get what they want.
It is impossible for me to comment on what was here before, I can only respond to what I see now, and then only on what happens when I am awake. 2O2E is going strong, some dead weight among the registered members but also a good bunch of active and proactive people...and Fitzy who must have some kind of category all of his own. We have track nights, several series running, about to run and being planned and the odd random get together, it's all good.
And when all is said and done I'm just a member of 2O4E , with a talent it seems for putting cats among pigeons. Everything I have said is just my opinion no more influential than that of anyone else.
In the last forum I put up some advise for new members...I guess I'd been a member about a month. In short it boiled down to...Don't sit back and do and say nothing, get stuck in, ask for help. The more you put, in the more you get out.
I don't think that applies to new members alone. It applies to everyone. I'm not saying everyone should be rushing around creating endless series that would be silly, but if your missing a bit of casual racing, let folk know you'll be on and when.
So that's Knight done, I have spent all day here and got in very little racing...Thanks for all caring enough to comment and share your thoughts, it proves there is passion and commitment to continuing to make this club just the best thing since sliced bread...
Cotter said it to me a year ago..."Don't be shy"
And he's regretted it ever since!!!
We all have
Ah thats better...
All got a bit serious. Oldschool you should hear me driving that hunk of junk, the air turns blue. I'm going to have to turn my mic off on the night.