My sincere apologies if I haven't done anything as 2O4F East club Prez to help matters. TBH, I wasn't sure what exactly was expected but i hope I haven't done a bad job. As many others have stated i agree that there may be several factors that lead to this. Burnout with Forza in general, lobby crashes, no new tracks, questionable cars in the DLC and lots of short timers joining the clubs. But I also think that the game was really hot when we first picked it up that we may have burned ourselves out. I see the same folks playing every day on my FL. I don't know if I explained that very well but I think in time things will pick up again.
I have particular tastes and so that's what leads to me just doing my own thing. Often times though, I have tried something outside my comfort zone and have been pleasantly surprised. I never drove FWD cars until someone was gave us all a gift car and when I drove it I found that I liked it. A lot.
Running casual races in several different car classes at several different tracks is not my thing. It's not that I don't have fun doing that with you guys. It's just that I can't get in a groove when I bounce around like that. But maybe it's something I should start doing. I can see that it has helped some other driver's so maybe it will make me quicker.
Anyway, if there is anything I can do to help out just let me know. This is a great place and I've met some very cool people here. I won'y be going anywhere.
Cotter if it was not for you, none of us would be here now talking to each other in what I believe to be the best racing clan on the Earth!! I thank you for that (although I don’t think my wife would say the same )
Right let me get to it.
I have been debating on either to PM this to Cotter or just post it on here. Obviously I chose the latter but please be aware these are just ideas!
1. Get rid of all the clubs and just have 2, US and EU. Post on here what the new clubs are called and let the people who are active rejoin. I know the clubs are limited to 100 players each but do we really have 200 active members? This will also clear the shared garages ready for new tunes ect. If we reach the limit of 200 members the Club admins could do with scanning the member and removing the players who have not been on for a long time ect.
2. In regards to the 800+ members list we have here I think I have an idea on how to remove the dead wood. V3 has been up for over a month now and if you still haven’t changed your avatar image to me you have not been on or CBA with this place. So why not remove the people with no avatar image and just have the people who have changed there’s. That way we might have a pretty close list of who is active around here.
3. Admins really could do with admin tools. That way we can help this place ticking over with out cotter having to worry about it constantly
4. I like the sub forum ideas but TBH I don’t think they are working. I think we should remove the current ones we have now and replace them with 1 called “NEW MEMBERS START HERE” and fill it with important information (club rules, MFG links, Event Schedule link ect). All the event topics should be then stickyd on the main page and discussions in the normal area.
5. Trying to find new members is a good idea as I don’t think we advertise anywhere in who we are or what we do. Once a new member start we should set a probation criteria (min post in 2 months ect) that way we are not getting clogged up again with dead wood.
As stated these are just ideas. I have more but I think these will help the club at this moment in time.
And like a lot of the guys here I just want what is best for this place.
Cotter, I very much appreciate your efforts in making 2Old4Forza what it is today. I also know that this has, at least to some extent, become work for you and that is not a good thing. Thus, its perfectly appropriate to pull back and try to curb the burnout.
I still enjoy Forza, its just hard for me to commit to any formal events. Like Wheels, I also have logistical issues with my Fanatec CSR Elite wheel, since I cannot use it for Forza 4 chat with my Turtle Beach headset. I have the M$ headsets, but I cannot use them because of the game noise. I also cannot get on before 7pm PST most nights. Even that time is tough for me, and I am currently committed to rFactor on Wednesday night, and GT5 on Thursday night. To do more could complicate matters with my wife.
As someone mentioned above, I do acknowledge my increasing interest in PC sim racing, including rFactor, iRacing, Richard Burns Rally and Project CARs. I also continue to enjoy GT5. I still have time for Forza 4, just not very much. If I did not love the game, I would not have recently invested $480 in additional Xboxes and copies of Forza 4 for triple screen game play.
Forza 4 is a great sim racer, we just have to accept it for what it is. Also keep in mind that variety is the spice of life.
Cotter, I very much appreciate your efforts in making 2Old4Forza what it is today. I also know that this has, at least to some extent, become work for you and that is not a good thing. Thus, its perfectly appropriate to pull back and try to curb the burnout.
I still enjoy Forza, its just hard for me to commit to any formal events. Like Wheels, I also have logistical issues with my Fanatec CSR Elite wheel, since I cannot use it for Forza 4 chat with my Turtle Beach headset. I have the M$ headsets, but I cannot use them because of the game noise. I also cannot get on before 7pm PST most nights. Even that time is tough for me, and I am currently committed to rFactor on Wednesday night, and GT5 on Thursday night. To do more could complicate matters with my wife.
As someone mentioned above, I do acknowledge my increasing interest in PC sim racing, including rFactor, iRacing, Richard Burns Rally and Project CARs. I also continue to enjoy GT5. I still have time for Forza 4, just not very much. If I did not love the game, I would not have recently invested $480 in additional Xboxes and copies of Forza 4 for triple screen game play.
Forza 4 is a great sim racer, we just have to accept it for what it is. Also keep in mind that variety is the spice of life.
My two cents, take em or leave em!!!
I see the PC guys as just as much part of what is going on here as us forza users, I enjoy seeing what your up to and will be joining in when I sort out the logistics of getting PC visuals over to my race rig...for logistics read cash LOL
I am like you, track night is my least favorite event I run for just that reason, so you just keep doing what your doing. The STCC is one of the most popular events on the calender. More more more
Now Church...
Two clubs is fine if it works for the US side, I don't know how active they mey be in the wee small hours.
The forum...we should wait to clear while news filters through of the sorted lobby problem and the older members may decide there is still fun to be had. Say another couple of months
Admin tools are down to doodi, Church we should mug him
Subforums I have waxed lyrical on these before, if they do not run how they were supposed to then yes for the events...but the Tuning and Painting forum is ticking along nicely and I see no need to remove it. the D2NR guys particularly seem to have made a home there.
SpazTV will raise our profile, and we are well known in the world of Forza, To be honest there seems to be a steady trickle of people joining and as Cotter correctly says 1 in 10 would be a good average for keepers. I don't see a crisis of membership, far from it. I did not start this because I am worried we will shrink but because I see new folk come and go without ever seeing them on track or on the forum and I wanted an insite into why that may be. Instead it has turned into an apparently long needed discussion about Clan identity, and why long established members have gone...all to the good, though I do hope to still get some idea of why some new folk leave...I have my suspicions and a previous post touched on them.
There is no need for "a wind of change" there is just a fresh energy from a new wave of ultra active members. We are only building on what Cotter, Tourni, and Doodie laid down when 2old 2play came into existance...and hey guys we are the most active clan here 2O2F is alive and well and will stay that way :-)
Hmm seemed to have got sidetracked into some classic babble there
On the fourm front I think what deffo needs sorting is this 800+ member list. We all know it is totally incorrect but we might be able to sort it slightly. And as i said erlyer if some one does come back they can allway re-apply.
Clubs front. If it was up to me I would get shut all together, we never had them in FM3 and we all got along ok dindnt we? Issues is now as we are split in to 4 diffrent clubs I can see people who just send a club request out when they have an open fun room (I do it my self sometimes ) and not bother looking at there friends list to see who is really online, in turn people who are on your friends list but not in your club never get an invite.
Also I get a feeling these clubs have kind of isolated us all from each other in a way.
If I sound a bit critical ect its just because I am a "actions speak louder than words" kind of guy
I hope you don't change the group set up in Forza , there seems to be a good balance of skill and commitment , and you guy's are the only one's that will put up with me !!
I know I don't get on and miss a lot of stuff because of real life stuff but change for me just makes things worse . When ever I sign in on XBOX and Fitzy is on I get an invite , some times I join and some times I don't . I think with the guy's currently about if you send a club invite out you'll get some sort of action !!
I'd love to join more races but without a single point to access all racess info I'm in the dark well to be honest I have a lot of trouble reading, left school with no education and could't read or write but managed to get a very successful career in sales and was diagnosed with dislexia a few years ago SO BACK TO TOPIC I'd love to join more stuff and the idea of change is a bit daunting!!!
Don't worry Kabar the club thing in Forza is what it is, we cannot change it and I think it's a good thing. I would never have got here without it. I still run with mates from other clubs. In fact those races are more fun because of what I have learned here. The forum is the place to make friends from other clubs because here we are all one. As I have run with more people so the friend list has grown with people from across the water as they find that knight is an okay guy to race with. Now if I open a room to practice in it soon starts filling with folk from all the clubs and sometimes their friend from other clubs too. The friend list is still there, one button and you know who's on. I look regularly to see if there is more than one friend in a room, if there is I take a look at what and were their running.
I don't feel disconnected I feel part of a whole and a pride in 2O2E we are the best of course
Lets not blow things out of proportion here, yes we need to do a bit of housework, Church I agree 800 members is daft, but it doesn't really affect anything in any real way and culling it doesn't really achieve anything of any real relevance or importance. Give it a little more time and then when we get our admin tools we should be able to see members by posts (I hope) We can start with members with 0 posts contact them give a week to respond then delete. But as I say there is no frantic rush.
Some of the original crew have already set about getting together for some relaxed fun and that for me made my day.
Most of our members just want to have a place to chat, moan, exchange info, insult Fitzy and race.
Other than that we just keep doing what we are doing, and having fun doing it.
Heh stevie I can't spell for shit either, I use the spell checker. Glad you find the NNDE useful and thanks for saying so. From what you say it has worked just as I wanted it to and that makes me very happy
Stevie SNAP many times I have put the cd in the slot and thought what now BORED then get in a loby with you guy's and 2 or 3 hours later I'm laghing my head off and looking forward to the next time so thanks guy's and please keep up the great work !!!!!
I know I left one of the clubs to move into another one but it certainly wasn't due to a lack of active members or invites.
I apologize that I don't race with everyone. I would but I would anger people with my leaving/rejoining over and over since I can never seem to get 10-15 minutes in a row without something causing me to pause the game which doesn't work in a race.
I miss racing, I really, really do. I miss events and tune testing sessions and simple pick a car, class and track and go! I miss all of them all.
I get invites everyday from us US folks. Multiple ones from a bunch of different folks. I will eventually accept one and race so please don't stop just cause I haven't accepted many to date.
Cotter has done amazing things getting us, and most importantly, keeping us, all together for so long even with the issues the game posed for many people and how real life craziness can impact people's schedules.
I really can't say or offer much to the subject of reorganizing and changing things. I trust you all will come up with something that works well for everyone. Interesting thread and a good read for sure. It goes to show you that there are a ton of folks that care about this place and like everything in life, sometimes change is needed or wanted. Not sure if that is indeed the case here but again, I trust you all will hash it out properly.
Cotter you have done a top notch job running things!
Like someone said above.....relax bro and look at what u have built and the friendships that have been created because of this club!
Cheers :)
As for the burnout, lack of interest etc. It was gonna happen its a game and they all die eventually :( I mentioned this before to to you. I believe we need to expand to more than just forza talk, and have other race games and plat forums here so guys dont have to join other forums to get info on games there playing. I personally would rather continue playing and talking with friends here on different games than starting all over somewhere else.
My 2 cents and something to consider ?
Cotter you have done a top notch job running things! Like someone said above.....relax bro and look at what u have built and the friendships that have been created because of this club! Cheers :) As for the burnout, lack of interest etc. It was gonna happen its a game and they all die eventually :( I mentioned this before to to you. I believe we need to expand to more than just forza talk, and have other race games and plat forums here so guys dont have to join other forums to get info on games there playing. I personally would rather continue playing and talking with friends here on different games than starting all over somewhere else. My 2 cents and something to consider ?
I think that is already happening, there are PC threads, Rally threads, even heaven forbid a Playstation thread LOL and I wholeheartedly agree. We all love sim racing, and I'm damn sure we would all have every one out there if we had the wherewithal.
I think I'm right in saying the "Gone broke Racing" crew have a presence here, and that is great, I want to have a look at rFactor myself...though by the time I get there they will probably have moved over to rFactor 2 LOL
Being an "older timer" (though not the oldest by any stretch) here at 2O4F, I'll throw my 2c in here.
First and foremost, I wouldn't be racing online if not for Cotter and this club (I very much hate the term "clan") so to you Jason I say a HUGE thank you! Some of the best virtual racing moments and greatest frustrations have come from being associated with this group of racers (old and new). Since coming to the group at the tail end of FM2, I've run series, participated in same, gifted, prized, bitched, fell off my chair laughing and a whole host of other things that you had to be there for. I've seen us at each other's throats at times, seen us accomplish things as a group that is truly amazing (from a real life perspective) and most of all I've seen real life friendships develop from here.
To me that is what 2O4F is all about. The club will wax and wane as games come and go but one thing I've seen over and over again is faces that have gone, always come back. Right now I personally see the club in a very chaotic state but its primarly external in nature. First you have the explosive growth of the club that takes away from that "knowing everybody" cause we're small and tight knit. Second you have the current iteration of Forza which regardless of your personal opinion, is polarizing players like never before. Finally you have the current iteration of the forums themselves. I'll leave it up to you if you like them or don't.
Being a club of Over 25's our capacity for bullshit becomes increasingly smaller as we get older and right now, the amount of bullshit floating around (games, forums, etc) is causing alot of people alot of stress. I used to be a regular nightly staple in Forza, hosting rooms, etc. However FM4 has totally turned me off the franchise so I've sought another outlet for my racing needs. Fortunately I was able to get involved with a group of 2O4Fers that are doing PC Sim Racing. To me that is the best. I get to race with folks I know, the group is small and its REAL racing.
I have no plans to leave 2O4F but I for sure have left FM4 for good. On the flip side I see new players coming into the game, organizing races, tuning clubs, etc. I think that is great and we NEED new blood to keep the club going strong. Don't worry about people coming and going as this is always going to happen. I think Cotter SHOULD be able to take a break and step away and the club should be able to function perfectly fine without him. That is a sign that the club is built on a good foundation.
To the new folks here. You are part of something really really special here. It may sound trite but if you stick around, you'll understand. Trust me!
To the older folks here. Lets grab a beer and watch the new guys run around for a bit! We'll come back and mess everything up when they get things running smoothly!
I can only echo what the other new guys have already said, I found this place by reading a post on Forza forums, of how freindly and accepting of new members you were, I can honestley say that in the three weeks I have been here I have been made to feel very welcome by all members I have met both from home and the other side of the pond, You all are really doing a fantastic job and for that I thank you, I have been involved with numerous forums over the years, and I can say with hand on heart that this is the most freindly, accessable and helpful I have been on, it speaks for itself, when I read in a forum post, that this site has no forum mods, checking,and deleting things they themselves do not agree with, never giving other members a chance to make comment, its nice that we can have frank open discussions without fear of being warned for posting something that is deemed politically incorrect.
As for the clubs, I hope they are not disbanded, just the fact that I am a member of 2O4E make me feel so included in everything, I am looking forward to being more involved in race events, but like Kabar, when I first joined it was all way over my head, but I have been guided through by many members and I have to say a very big thank you to one member on particular for all the help, guidance and infomation they have given me, so Thank you Knight,
I was nervous about joining in the race lobbies, I dont talk much and sometime people think I am being rude by staying quiet, once i really get to know you all better that will change, and then you'll wish I would be quiet .LOL As a novice racer I wondered if I would be welcome, but had no need to worry, driving with you guys is so much fun, even at the back, and you have all been patient with me helping along the way, I have had people follow me round pointing out all the errors I make and putting me right, not once has someone been rude or angry with me even when I take them off the track, quite the opposite, they have appologised to me when it was clearly my fault, thats how good you all are here, yes there are a few wrinkles to iron out, but trust me when I say, that I have found no place like this anywhere out there, so this place is something you should all be very proud of, a few little tweaks and things will run smoother than ever.
If there is ever anything you need a helping hand with, I am willing but not very able, but a quick learner, so I'm willing to pitch in where ever I can, in fact it would be great to get more involved, make me feel even more part of the best group of people on the internet.
I was nervous about joining in the race lobbies, I dont talk much and sometime people think I am being rude by staying quiet, once i really get to know you all better that will change, and then you'll wish I would be quiet .
Shadders, am I grateful to you for saying this - I could have written every word of it about myself. A few months on and I am still at the "getting to know you all better stage", but I promise there will come a day when you'll all be thinking, "that swhite fella - could'nt he just keep his mouth shut sometimes!"
I have a few thoughts on why some new members may leave. I don't actaully think there is a great deal more we can do to encourage new members to hang around, I just thought it would be useful to give my perspective, hopefully it may help some new members who read this and are in the same position I was, it might also give some more experienced members an insight into one or two things they have never been aware of:
Speed - It's pretty surreal thinking you're good at something only to join your first track night and see the majority of the field disappear up the road! Some people will join, see how fast everyone else is, and decide this is not the place for them, the people in the club who think they are "slow" are still fast by most real world standards.
Race etiquette - I "trained" in public lobbies, so my perception of what is and is not acceptable may have been skewed! I am still learning to find the right balance between being aggressive and not upsetting people - for me the whole "racecraft" element is the hardest part to learn.
I think the weekly track nights, Knights saturday night event and the information on racecraft etc. on this board, are all brilliant for helping with both of the above and I personally don't think the club can do much in these areas.
Game/club complexity - For some, myself included, a massive amount of what happens with club activities/club racing etc. will be completely new - the learning curve is enormous and there are a lot of things which it appears everyone else thinks are completely obvious that I did'nt have the first clue about when I joined, here's a few examples:
- Opening up a room and working out the correct settings - i.e. changing the end of race timer, etc.
- Gifting tunes, paints, etc.
- Lobby groups - i.e. group 1, group 2, etc. (in fact I still don't really know what these are!)
- Working out which events you do or don't need to sign up for, signing up, do I need a race number? How do I get one?
For some new members the level of apparently "presumed knowledge" will make them feel too much of a fish out of water and they will leave. A lot of people will say "all you need to do is ask/look for the answers on here and all of the help/information you need is available". Some people just won't do this, so will miss out.
Fortunately for me, I stuck with it, I got a great welcome to the club from all quarters and know I can still get whatever advice I need. I love being part of the club as a whole, and the "sub-clubs" I have been in 2O4E and latterly D2NR, and look forward to every time I get online and race with whoever is around. I will echo what others have said by saying that Cotter has done an incredible job with what he has created and all of the club leaders and deputies I have met do a great job, doing what must feel like a bit of a thankless task at times....
PS. My record longest post, by far - hopefully now if there is a member culling process this will guarantee me being retained!
Yes your last points about club complexity is well made and one I hadn't really considered...Earlier in the thread Church suggested a "New members start here" thread and I think this could be at least part of the solution.
I got thrown into the deep end and was hosting a room in the EUSL after only a few weeks...made a complete hash of it. Hosting a lobby is very complex at first viewing and I have blithely suggested people do that ...So one thing we do lack here is maybe a basic lobby hosting guide. With Snappys help I do know more than I did but I still pretty clueless about a lot of the settings. Shame you can't gift lobby setups...anyhoo food for thought.
Edit...safe from deletion..hmm to fast by half, wrecked my chance of winning any STCC races... I feel my finger hovering over the member delete button LOL
I'll jump in here as well... I've been a memeber for 2 years+ and here are my 2 cents
When I discovered the club there was an event every evening starting at 10pm est which was perfect for me and I raced every night.
Then real life only allowed me to race Mon, Tues and Thurs which still worked out for me...
Raced AM (amature racers) - a lot of people my skill level at that time and I had great races. the Handicap kept me in the race and the caution where a great idea to keep everyone grouped after an incident
Raced Spec (very tallented drivers) - a lot of people here as well but I was always close to getting lapped, every race. Here there was no handicap and no cautions, serious racing
After JC left there was no one to pick up the slack, JC left a big hole and big shoes to fill. People have tried to keep it going but they have created races they can run and have forgotten about the masses.
With such a larger group of people it is difficult to please everyone but there must be an attempt, by the Event Organizers, to provide Events that feed the masses, JC did that with the car builds, they were very well tuned and driveable which I'm sure took some time to put together.
I think we need this back, "Scheduled Events" that bring out the masses, great tunes + driveable cars
I've hosted a couple of events and it's a task and time consuming, I understand that but to keep the people here we need more events that are fun for everyone and not for one small group at odd hours that fit thier schedule. These events could be run during the week as well. I did this for the Porsche Series JC created. It was on Saturday at 5pm I took the series with JC permission and ran it on a Monday 10pm, we had a full room.
I don't mind racing in random rooms with whatever, however this is an issue because the people who don't sleep and dream Forza don't have the cars ready for the room. I've been in rooms where people have specific builds and tunes that they have worked for months on them and they pull these out and the racing is boring between the the slow guys like me that show up with an untuned car that is slow even though the car is at the max PI. This works with people who are the same skill level and have a similar tune but to those of us that can't tune or don't have the time to build 100 B Class cars to suit each track this does't work. Also no one wants to run stock when they have great tuned cars. I know people freely share thier tunes but when you are in a room it takes time to gift tunes out and then that tune may not work for that driver and then we change tracks or Class and then we have the same problem again.
Schedule Events, I think resolves this for the new or the person that can't tune or the person that doesn't have the time.
I look forward to the scheduled events, I get the tune gifted then I just show up and race. Never practice and have a great race that night. When the tune is just slapped together the racing is not as fun as the car is hard to drive and others have tuned it better than the original tune. This tune sharing for the new or the less talented tuners is a great equalizer and racing becomes better when the tune is shared.
I miss the AM series where new/slow Forza members can jump in B Class or lower and have a races that is more thier/my skill level. As these people don't tune or breath or sleep Forza but like racing
ProAm is great but we have very fast guys here and when you are thrown in a room full of pros you really don't want to come back, what's the point if you will be last all the time. People like to race and when you are on your own at the back why come to the next race.
Spec was also great, when I had a tuned and car I could handle it in a room of my skill level, fun times
Last thing this is for the Event organizers when creating room you should put the same skill levels together when possible. Putting a InSaneRC with a El Kochino is not fun for El Kochino :D and even less fun for InSaneRC as he has to be handicapped so much that it's no fun for him
Those are my 2 cents, maybe it came out to more than 2 cents :D
Played with Shadders and some drivers from 2O4F tonight ...What a blast , will make a point of throwing some FR's out to regular players from other groups !!! Thanks guy's and look forward to the next time !
Played with Shadders and some drivers from 2O4F tonight ...What a blast , will make a point of throwing some FR's out to regular players from other groups !!! Thanks guy's and look forward to the next time !
I got on about 4:30ish PM EST, looked at the friends list and saw a few names mucking about ( yes, I said it) and created a lobby, sent a club invite, then went back and crawled through the friends list and anyone that had Fm4 on got an invite, wanted or not.
Well, at 4:30pm EST I got a small gaggle of Euros (they are annoyingly polite, hah!) and Teammate ( not sure what he is, but I don't think he's a Euro).
We ran some lower stuff, I think we touched S class once?, and generally just wandered around, ran through some reverse PI lobby AI, and generally hooted, hollered, and had a blast.
I did hear a few over the head phones giving some pointers back in the pack, and I gotta tell you, this makes me quite happy to hear.
There was a few all out runs, but generally some fun racing to be sure.
There WAS a SNappy sighting, in fact after chasing him don for three laps, I got a superb view of his ass for a lap and a half at Sebring but ended up about 75 feet behind him at the line. I think he was mildly surprised...
I know some don't like the randomness of pick up rooms, and reasons were offered up like lack of time to prepare, lack of set tunes, differeing skill sets, etc.
I would offer up that these are also strengths. Hear me out.
You run with people you might never see otherwise, the faster guys, if they're on their game, usually will pull out cars they don't normally get to run ( read slower/untested etc.) and they get to run a bit further back int he pack as a result.
This lets the slower guys mix it up a tad with the faster guys
The opportunity presented here to gain tunes, paints, even an idea of what cars are better is like no other place in the game. Where do you get to see what's quick, what looks good, anywhere else? The S/F? Forums (T-10, not us?) Those people are trying to sell you something, the guys in these lobby's will usually give it to you. You can even ask what to do if the rears too tight on a car no one else in the room tuned, and get two or three opinions. I've even seen a tune sent, and sent back tweaked, just because someone offered.
I'm adverse to set cars, set tunes, etc. Often they are too loose in the rear for me, I'm too ham fisted, I have to have a little grip, and while I have cars I DO like to run alot, I like to run a lot of cars.
Anyway. I hope it was a fun night. I did learn that when your box locks up and you get kicked out, when you get back,make sure the guy leading the room now KNOWS he's leading it, hehe.
I plan (unplan) to run many more, and they will be random, you'll just have to look for them, and maybe that's a good thing...
El Kochino...Some interesting points and the mass appeal type events is something I am aiming to focus on, the Fairlady Cup is just what you are talking about with gifted tunes, the Snappys STCC is also very user friendly with great easy to drive cars. The newer and slower drivers run in the Privateer Room and benefit from the Factory teams taking care of their reserve drivers needs for tunes as well. The EUSL is another event that comes with ready made cars and I have never wanted for a tune tweak there either. I have some other ideas for events bubbling under but I must be careful not to try and do too much at once...but watch this space.
Shadders Thank you for your kind comments and don't worry about being quiet during races, I don't think I said more than a few words during the whole of the last EUSL race and not one while I was racing, I rarely speak at all during a race. Good to know you want to get more involved and have no fear, as you settle in you will get the call and will be hosting rooms and helping run events and running your own before you know it.
Sherb
KRGDRK Several nails on head there, not a fan of the word clan either by the way. I think it is clear that most new members that post and participate know right off the bat they are in a special place and we will do our level best to keep it that way.
Well this thread has gone in a completely different direction from the intended...but the one thing that is clear as a bell is there is a pride and a loyalty here that needed an outlet. Not everyone is happy all the time, no news there. But if we don't like something we can change it, or create something we do like. I said earlier, this is a virtual space in which we chat and race. Because of that it, is limited only by our imaginations. Don't know about you lot but I imagine a bright and glowing future for 2O2F across many Sims, many platforms and many years
Knight thinking about the original Q\ Why do people leave.
For me it's simple, I have considered leaving due to my lack of partisipation and that is it in a nut shell my lack of partisipation, yes you have to find out how things work and boy am I still getting to grips with things and the help is brilliant but all said and done if you want to learn , play and compete their has to be a steep learning curve , the best things in live are not free effort is needed on my part as aplies to new guy's as well but saying that a one post info for new players would be great, all info needed to get started things like whitch club in forza for their area, how to join races and who can help with different issues etc ect . I for one would of followed info in a post or sticky like this !
Yes Kabar, no argument there, to get the most out of the club yes you have to put in some effort. For a pick up and play gamer this is not a natural home and I'm certain explains many of the short term visitors. I'm sure heads will be put together soon, and a sticky started with basic info and guide on how to get started.
Great stuff, I will certainly join the fun if I am on at the same time. I may like single car series as a rule, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy a mash up with some random cars from the Garage from time to time. May I introduce you to the concept of "the plin"? it is like a plan but with a built in acceptance that it could change, go wrong or even never happen at all. I plin almost everything, and have never been disappointed by the outcome.
Great stuff, I will certainly join the fun if I am on at the same time. I may like single car series as a rule, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy a mash up with some random cars from the Garage from time to time. May I introduce you to the concept of "the plin"? it is like a plan but with a built in acceptance that it could change, go wrong or even never happen at all. I plin almost everything, and have never been disappointed by the outcome.
Perhaps we should start doing something like T10's weekly pit-pass report.Except a 2O4F version that would be updated on the main clan page every week or 2. If we've got any writers who'd be interested in giving it a go, just let me know.
On a side note. Lobby setups can be shared in a roundabout way.....
1-Player a sets up his room according to whatever specs are being run. (note...Player b muxt be the 1st person to join the room.
2-Player b joins the lobby.
3-Player a then pulls up his dashboard & hits the "y" button in order to exit game to Xbox dashboard.. (this way the lobby settings remain intact when he leaves)
4-Player b then gains control of lobby with settings in place. He can then go into game setup & save said settings.
My sincere apologies if I haven't done anything as 2O4F East club Prez to help matters. TBH, I wasn't sure what exactly was expected but i hope I haven't done a bad job. As many others have stated i agree that there may be several factors that lead to this. Burnout with Forza in general, lobby crashes, no new tracks, questionable cars in the DLC and lots of short timers joining the clubs. But I also think that the game was really hot when we first picked it up that we may have burned ourselves out. I see the same folks playing every day on my FL. I don't know if I explained that very well but I think in time things will pick up again.
I have particular tastes and so that's what leads to me just doing my own thing. Often times though, I have tried something outside my comfort zone and have been pleasantly surprised. I never drove FWD cars until someone was gave us all a gift car and when I drove it I found that I liked it. A lot.
Running casual races in several different car classes at several different tracks is not my thing. It's not that I don't have fun doing that with you guys. It's just that I can't get in a groove when I bounce around like that. But maybe it's something I should start doing. I can see that it has helped some other driver's so maybe it will make me quicker.
Anyway, if there is anything I can do to help out just let me know. This is a great place and I've met some very cool people here. I won'y be going anywhere.
Firstly let me say this.
Cotter if it was not for you, none of us would be here now talking to each other in what I believe to be the best racing clan on the Earth!! I thank you for that (although I don’t think my wife would say the same
)
Right let me get to it.
I have been debating on either to PM this to Cotter or just post it on here. Obviously I chose the latter but please be aware these are just ideas!
1. Get rid of all the clubs and just have 2, US and EU. Post on here what the new clubs are called and let the people who are active rejoin. I know the clubs are limited to 100 players each but do we really have 200 active members? This will also clear the shared garages ready for new tunes ect. If we reach the limit of 200 members the Club admins could do with scanning the member and removing the players who have not been on for a long time ect.
2. In regards to the 800+ members list we have here I think I have an idea on how to remove the dead wood. V3 has been up for over a month now and if you still haven’t changed your avatar image to me you have not been on or CBA with this place. So why not remove the people with no avatar image and just have the people who have changed there’s. That way we might have a pretty close list of who is active around here.
3. Admins really could do with admin tools. That way we can help this place ticking over with out cotter having to worry about it constantly
4. I like the sub forum ideas but TBH I don’t think they are working. I think we should remove the current ones we have now and replace them with 1 called “NEW MEMBERS START HERE” and fill it with important information (club rules, MFG links, Event Schedule link ect). All the event topics should be then stickyd on the main page and discussions in the normal area.
5. Trying to find new members is a good idea as I don’t think we advertise anywhere in who we are or what we do. Once a new member start we should set a probation criteria (min post in 2 months ect) that way we are not getting clogged up again with dead wood.
As stated these are just ideas. I have more but I think these will help the club at this moment in time.
And like a lot of the guys here I just want what is best for this place.
Keep up the good work Cotter we do appreciate it!
Cotter, I very much appreciate your efforts in making 2Old4Forza what it is today. I also know that this has, at least to some extent, become work for you and that is not a good thing. Thus, its perfectly appropriate to pull back and try to curb the burnout.
I still enjoy Forza, its just hard for me to commit to any formal events. Like Wheels, I also have logistical issues with my Fanatec CSR Elite wheel, since I cannot use it for Forza 4 chat with my Turtle Beach headset. I have the M$ headsets, but I cannot use them because of the game noise. I also cannot get on before 7pm PST most nights. Even that time is tough for me, and I am currently committed to rFactor on Wednesday night, and GT5 on Thursday night. To do more could complicate matters with my wife.
As someone mentioned above, I do acknowledge my increasing interest in PC sim racing, including rFactor, iRacing, Richard Burns Rally and Project CARs. I also continue to enjoy GT5. I still have time for Forza 4, just not very much.
If I did not love the game, I would not have recently invested $480 in additional Xboxes and copies of Forza 4 for triple screen game play.
Forza 4 is a great sim racer, we just have to accept it for what it is. Also keep in mind that variety is the spice of life.
My two cents, take em or leave em!!!
I see the PC guys as just as much part of what is going on here as us forza users, I enjoy seeing what your up to and will be joining in when I sort out the logistics of getting PC visuals over to my race rig...for logistics read cash LOL
First Sanappy...
I am like you, track night is my least favorite event I run for just that reason, so you just keep doing what your doing. The STCC is one of the most popular events on the calender. More more more
Now Church...
Two clubs is fine if it works for the US side, I don't know how active they mey be in the wee small hours.
The forum...we should wait to clear while news filters through of the sorted lobby problem and the older members may decide there is still fun to be had. Say another couple of months
Admin tools are down to doodi, Church we should mug him
Subforums I have waxed lyrical on these before, if they do not run how they were supposed to then yes for the events...but the Tuning and Painting forum is ticking along nicely and I see no need to remove it. the D2NR guys particularly seem to have made a home there.
SpazTV will raise our profile, and we are well known in the world of Forza, To be honest there seems to be a steady trickle of people joining and as Cotter correctly says 1 in 10 would be a good average for keepers. I don't see a crisis of membership, far from it. I did not start this because I am worried we will shrink but because I see new folk come and go without ever seeing them on track or on the forum and I wanted an insite into why that may be. Instead it has turned into an apparently long needed discussion about Clan identity, and why long established members have gone...all to the good, though I do hope to still get some idea of why some new folk leave...I have my suspicions and a previous post touched on them.
There is no need for "a wind of change" there is just a fresh energy from a new wave of ultra active members. We are only building on what Cotter, Tourni, and Doodie laid down when 2old 2play came into existance...and hey guys we are the most active clan here 2O2F is alive and well and will stay that way :-)
Hmm seemed to have got sidetracked into some classic babble there
On the fourm front I think what deffo needs sorting is this 800+ member list. We all know it is totally incorrect but we might be able to sort it slightly. And as i said erlyer if some one does come back they can allway re-apply.
Clubs front. If it was up to me I would get shut all together, we never had them in FM3 and we all got along ok dindnt we? Issues is now as we are split in to 4 diffrent clubs I can see people who just send a club request out when they have an open fun room (I do it my self sometimes
) and not bother looking at there friends list to see who is really online, in turn people who are on your friends list but not in your club never get an invite.
Also I get a feeling these clubs have kind of isolated us all from each other in a way.
If I sound a bit critical ect its just because I am a "actions speak louder than words" kind of guy
yeah, I agree, there should be a single "friends" button same as the club...
I hope you don't change the group set up in Forza , there seems to be a good balance of skill and commitment , and you guy's are the only one's that will put up with me !!
I know I don't get on and miss a lot of stuff because of real life stuff but change for me just makes things worse . When ever I sign in on XBOX and Fitzy is on I get an invite , some times I join and some times I don't . I think with the guy's currently about if you send a club invite out you'll get some sort of action !!
I'd love to join more races but without a single point to access all racess info I'm in the dark well to be honest I have a lot of trouble reading, left school with no education and could't read or write but managed to get a very successful career in sales and was diagnosed with dislexia a few years ago SO BACK TO TOPIC I'd love to join more stuff and the idea of change is a bit daunting!!!
Hi guys I try to get involved as much as I can I dont post a lot cause I can't spell for shit
only realy started getting involved over the last few months or so thanks to knight and his
New and novice event it felt like crap getting left behind all the time but iv improved a lot
in that time and I enjoy online now not so much the track nights iv never got a car to run with the pack
but the events like the STCC are great and I hope to get involved in more of the Sunday events
im sure u guys will come up with something that will work. Just keep up the great work that u have all done
There is a great core of players that seem to be involved In all the things I end up in and the banter is great
if it wasn't for u guys here forza would be done for me.
Don't worry Kabar the club thing in Forza is what it is, we cannot change it and I think it's a good thing. I would never have got here without it. I still run with mates from other clubs. In fact those races are more fun because of what I have learned here. The forum is the place to make friends from other clubs because here we are all one. As I have run with more people so the friend list has grown with people from across the water as they find that knight is an okay guy to race with. Now if I open a room to practice in it soon starts filling with folk from all the clubs and sometimes their friend from other clubs too. The friend list is still there, one button and you know who's on. I look regularly to see if there is more than one friend in a room, if there is I take a look at what and were their running.
I don't feel disconnected I feel part of a whole and a pride in 2O2E we are the best of course
Lets not blow things out of proportion here, yes we need to do a bit of housework, Church I agree 800 members is daft, but it doesn't really affect anything in any real way and culling it doesn't really achieve anything of any real relevance or importance. Give it a little more time and then when we get our admin tools we should be able to see members by posts (I hope) We can start with members with 0 posts contact them give a week to respond then delete. But as I say there is no frantic rush.
Some of the original crew have already set about getting together for some relaxed fun and that for me made my day.
Most of our members just want to have a place to chat, moan, exchange info, insult Fitzy and race.
Other than that we just keep doing what we are doing, and having fun doing it.
We would keep the EU club
I think most of the issues are on the US side. I have noticed less and less US guys posting on here and never really see them online anymore.
I will chill for a bit till something os decieded.
And Knight - Touchae chap, Touchae
Heh stevie I can't spell for shit either, I use the spell checker. Glad you find the NNDE useful and thanks for saying so. From what you say it has worked just as I wanted it to and that makes me very happy
Stevie SNAP many times I have put the cd in the slot and thought what now BORED then get in a loby with you guy's and 2 or 3 hours later I'm laghing my head off and looking forward to the next time so thanks guy's and please keep up the great work !!!!!
I'm from the US and I'm active-ish.....
I know I left one of the clubs to move into another one but it certainly wasn't due to a lack of active members or invites.
I apologize that I don't race with everyone. I would but I would anger people with my leaving/rejoining over and over since I can never seem to get 10-15 minutes in a row without something causing me to pause the game which doesn't work in a race.
I miss racing, I really, really do. I miss events and tune testing sessions and simple pick a car, class and track and go! I miss all of them all.
I get invites everyday from us US folks. Multiple ones from a bunch of different folks. I will eventually accept one and race so please don't stop just cause I haven't accepted many to date.
Cotter has done amazing things getting us, and most importantly, keeping us, all together for so long even with the issues the game posed for many people and how real life craziness can impact people's schedules.
I really can't say or offer much to the subject of reorganizing and changing things. I trust you all will come up with something that works well for everyone. Interesting thread and a good read for sure. It goes to show you that there are a ton of folks that care about this place and like everything in life, sometimes change is needed or wanted. Not sure if that is indeed the case here but again, I trust you all will hash it out properly.
I think that is already happening, there are PC threads, Rally threads, even heaven forbid a Playstation thread LOL and I wholeheartedly agree. We all love sim racing, and I'm damn sure we would all have every one out there if we had the wherewithal.
I think I'm right in saying the "Gone broke Racing" crew have a presence here, and that is great, I want to have a look at rFactor myself...though by the time I get there they will probably have moved over to rFactor 2 LOL
Being an "older timer" (though not the oldest by any stretch) here at 2O4F, I'll throw my 2c in here.
First and foremost, I wouldn't be racing online if not for Cotter and this club (I very much hate the term "clan") so to you Jason I say a HUGE thank you! Some of the best virtual racing moments and greatest frustrations have come from being associated with this group of racers (old and new). Since coming to the group at the tail end of FM2, I've run series, participated in same, gifted, prized, bitched, fell off my chair laughing and a whole host of other things that you had to be there for. I've seen us at each other's throats at times, seen us accomplish things as a group that is truly amazing (from a real life perspective) and most of all I've seen real life friendships develop from here.
To me that is what 2O4F is all about. The club will wax and wane as games come and go but one thing I've seen over and over again is faces that have gone, always come back. Right now I personally see the club in a very chaotic state but its primarly external in nature. First you have the explosive growth of the club that takes away from that "knowing everybody" cause we're small and tight knit. Second you have the current iteration of Forza which regardless of your personal opinion, is polarizing players like never before. Finally you have the current iteration of the forums themselves. I'll leave it up to you if you like them or don't.
Being a club of Over 25's our capacity for bullshit becomes increasingly smaller as we get older and right now, the amount of bullshit floating around (games, forums, etc) is causing alot of people alot of stress. I used to be a regular nightly staple in Forza, hosting rooms, etc. However FM4 has totally turned me off the franchise so I've sought another outlet for my racing needs. Fortunately I was able to get involved with a group of 2O4Fers that are doing PC Sim Racing. To me that is the best. I get to race with folks I know, the group is small and its REAL racing.
I have no plans to leave 2O4F but I for sure have left FM4 for good. On the flip side I see new players coming into the game, organizing races, tuning clubs, etc. I think that is great and we NEED new blood to keep the club going strong. Don't worry about people coming and going as this is always going to happen. I think Cotter SHOULD be able to take a break and step away and the club should be able to function perfectly fine without him. That is a sign that the club is built on a good foundation.
To the new folks here. You are part of something really really special here. It may sound trite but if you stick around, you'll understand. Trust me!
To the older folks here. Lets grab a beer and watch the new guys run around for a bit! We'll come back and mess everything up when they get things running smoothly!
Cheers!
I can only echo what the other new guys have already said, I found this place by reading a post on Forza forums, of how freindly and accepting of new members you were, I can honestley say that in the three weeks I have been here I have been made to feel very welcome by all members I have met both from home and the other side of the pond, You all are really doing a fantastic job and for that I thank you, I have been involved with numerous forums over the years, and I can say with hand on heart that this is the most freindly, accessable and helpful I have been on, it speaks for itself, when I read in a forum post, that this site has no forum mods, checking,and deleting things they themselves do not agree with, never giving other members a chance to make comment, its nice that we can have frank open discussions without fear of being warned for posting something that is deemed politically incorrect.
As for the clubs, I hope they are not disbanded, just the fact that I am a member of 2O4E make me feel so included in everything, I am looking forward to being more involved in race events, but like Kabar, when I first joined it was all way over my head, but I have been guided through by many members and I have to say a very big thank you to one member on particular for all the help, guidance and infomation they have given me, so Thank you Knight,
I was nervous about joining in the race lobbies, I dont talk much and sometime people think I am being rude by staying quiet, once i really get to know you all better that will change, and then you'll wish I would be quiet .LOL As a novice racer I wondered if I would be welcome, but had no need to worry, driving with you guys is so much fun, even at the back, and you have all been patient with me helping along the way, I have had people follow me round pointing out all the errors I make and putting me right, not once has someone been rude or angry with me even when I take them off the track, quite the opposite, they have appologised to me when it was clearly my fault, thats how good you all are here, yes there are a few wrinkles to iron out, but trust me when I say, that I have found no place like this anywhere out there, so this place is something you should all be very proud of, a few little tweaks and things will run smoother than ever.
If there is ever anything you need a helping hand with, I am willing but not very able, but a quick learner, so I'm willing to pitch in where ever I can, in fact it would be great to get more involved, make me feel even more part of the best group of people on the internet.
Shadders, am I grateful to you for saying this - I could have written every word of it about myself. A few months on and I am still at the "getting to know you all better stage", but I promise there will come a day when you'll all be thinking, "that swhite fella - could'nt he just keep his mouth shut sometimes!"
I have a few thoughts on why some new members may leave. I don't actaully think there is a great deal more we can do to encourage new members to hang around, I just thought it would be useful to give my perspective, hopefully it may help some new members who read this and are in the same position I was, it might also give some more experienced members an insight into one or two things they have never been aware of:
Speed - It's pretty surreal thinking you're good at something only to join your first track night and see the majority of the field disappear up the road! Some people will join, see how fast everyone else is, and decide this is not the place for them, the people in the club who think they are "slow" are still fast by most real world standards.
Race etiquette - I "trained" in public lobbies, so my perception of what is and is not acceptable may have been skewed! I am still learning to find the right balance between being aggressive and not upsetting people - for me the whole "racecraft" element is the hardest part to learn.
I think the weekly track nights, Knights saturday night event and the information on racecraft etc. on this board, are all brilliant for helping with both of the above and I personally don't think the club can do much in these areas.
Game/club complexity - For some, myself included, a massive amount of what happens with club activities/club racing etc. will be completely new - the learning curve is enormous and there are a lot of things which it appears everyone else thinks are completely obvious that I did'nt have the first clue about when I joined, here's a few examples:
- Opening up a room and working out the correct settings - i.e. changing the end of race timer, etc.
- Gifting tunes, paints, etc.
- Lobby groups - i.e. group 1, group 2, etc. (in fact I still don't really know what these are!)
- Working out which events you do or don't need to sign up for, signing up, do I need a race number? How do I get one?
For some new members the level of apparently "presumed knowledge" will make them feel too much of a fish out of water and they will leave. A lot of people will say "all you need to do is ask/look for the answers on here and all of the help/information you need is available". Some people just won't do this, so will miss out.
Fortunately for me, I stuck with it, I got a great welcome to the club from all quarters and know I can still get whatever advice I need. I love being part of the club as a whole, and the "sub-clubs" I have been in 2O4E and latterly D2NR, and look forward to every time I get online and race with whoever is around. I will echo what others have said by saying that Cotter has done an incredible job with what he has created and all of the club leaders and deputies I have met do a great job, doing what must feel like a bit of a thankless task at times....
PS. My record longest post, by far - hopefully now if there is a member culling process this will guarantee me being retained!
Yes your last points about club complexity is well made and one I hadn't really considered...Earlier in the thread Church suggested a "New members start here" thread and I think this could be at least part of the solution.
I got thrown into the deep end and was hosting a room in the EUSL after only a few weeks...made a complete hash of it. Hosting a lobby is very complex at first viewing and I have blithely suggested people do that ...So one thing we do lack here is maybe a basic lobby hosting guide. With Snappys help I do know more than I did but I still pretty clueless about a lot of the settings. Shame you can't gift lobby setups...anyhoo food for thought.
Edit...safe from deletion..hmm to fast by half, wrecked my chance of winning any STCC races... I feel my finger hovering over the member delete button LOL
Don't worry clubs aren't going away...there are just considerations of condensing the 4 clubs into 2 or 3.
I'll jump in here as well... I've been a memeber for 2 years+ and here are my 2 cents
When I discovered the club there was an event every evening starting at 10pm est which was perfect for me and I raced every night.
Then real life only allowed me to race Mon, Tues and Thurs which still worked out for me...
Raced AM (amature racers) - a lot of people my skill level at that time and I had great races. the Handicap kept me in the race and the caution where a great idea to keep everyone grouped after an incident
Raced Spec (very tallented drivers) - a lot of people here as well but I was always close to getting lapped, every race. Here there was no handicap and no cautions, serious racing
After JC left there was no one to pick up the slack, JC left a big hole and big shoes to fill. People have tried to keep it going but they have created races they can run and have forgotten about the masses.
With such a larger group of people it is difficult to please everyone but there must be an attempt, by the Event Organizers, to provide Events that feed the masses, JC did that with the car builds, they were very well tuned and driveable which I'm sure took some time to put together.
I think we need this back, "Scheduled Events" that bring out the masses, great tunes + driveable cars
I've hosted a couple of events and it's a task and time consuming, I understand that but to keep the people here we need more events that are fun for everyone and not for one small group at odd hours that fit thier schedule. These events could be run during the week as well. I did this for the Porsche Series JC created. It was on Saturday at 5pm I took the series with JC permission and ran it on a Monday 10pm, we had a full room.
I don't mind racing in random rooms with whatever, however this is an issue because the people who don't sleep and dream Forza don't have the cars ready for the room. I've been in rooms where people have specific builds and tunes that they have worked for months on them and they pull these out and the racing is boring between the the slow guys like me that show up with an untuned car that is slow even though the car is at the max PI. This works with people who are the same skill level and have a similar tune but to those of us that can't tune or don't have the time to build 100 B Class cars to suit each track this does't work. Also no one wants to run stock when they have great tuned cars. I know people freely share thier tunes but when you are in a room it takes time to gift tunes out and then that tune may not work for that driver and then we change tracks or Class and then we have the same problem again.
Schedule Events, I think resolves this for the new or the person that can't tune or the person that doesn't have the time.
I look forward to the scheduled events, I get the tune gifted then I just show up and race. Never practice and have a great race that night. When the tune is just slapped together the racing is not as fun as the car is hard to drive and others have tuned it better than the original tune. This tune sharing for the new or the less talented tuners is a great equalizer and racing becomes better when the tune is shared.
I miss the AM series where new/slow Forza members can jump in B Class or lower and have a races that is more thier/my skill level. As these people don't tune or breath or sleep Forza but like racing
ProAm is great but we have very fast guys here and when you are thrown in a room full of pros you really don't want to come back, what's the point if you will be last all the time. People like to race and when you are on your own at the back why come to the next race.
Spec was also great, when I had a tuned and car I could handle it in a room of my skill level, fun times
Last thing this is for the Event organizers when creating room you should put the same skill levels together when possible. Putting a InSaneRC with a El Kochino is not fun for El Kochino :D and even less fun for InSaneRC as he has to be handicapped so much that it's no fun for him
Those are my 2 cents, maybe it came out to more than 2 cents :D
Played with Shadders and some drivers from 2O4F tonight ...What a blast , will make a point of throwing some FR's out to regular players from other groups !!! Thanks guy's and look forward to the next time !
I got on about 4:30ish PM EST, looked at the friends list and saw a few names mucking about ( yes, I said it) and created a lobby, sent a club invite, then went back and crawled through the friends list and anyone that had Fm4 on got an invite, wanted or not.
Well, at 4:30pm EST I got a small gaggle of Euros (they are annoyingly polite, hah!) and Teammate ( not sure what he is, but I don't think he's a Euro).
We ran some lower stuff, I think we touched S class once?, and generally just wandered around, ran through some reverse PI lobby AI, and generally hooted, hollered, and had a blast.
I did hear a few over the head phones giving some pointers back in the pack, and I gotta tell you, this makes me quite happy to hear.
There was a few all out runs, but generally some fun racing to be sure.
There WAS a SNappy sighting, in fact after chasing him don for three laps, I got a superb view of his ass for a lap and a half at Sebring but ended up about 75 feet behind him at the line. I think he was mildly surprised...
I know some don't like the randomness of pick up rooms, and reasons were offered up like lack of time to prepare, lack of set tunes, differeing skill sets, etc.
I would offer up that these are also strengths. Hear me out.
You run with people you might never see otherwise, the faster guys, if they're on their game, usually will pull out cars they don't normally get to run ( read slower/untested etc.) and they get to run a bit further back int he pack as a result.
This lets the slower guys mix it up a tad with the faster guys
The opportunity presented here to gain tunes, paints, even an idea of what cars are better is like no other place in the game. Where do you get to see what's quick, what looks good, anywhere else? The S/F? Forums (T-10, not us?) Those people are trying to sell you something, the guys in these lobby's will usually give it to you. You can even ask what to do if the rears too tight on a car no one else in the room tuned, and get two or three opinions. I've even seen a tune sent, and sent back tweaked, just because someone offered.
I'm adverse to set cars, set tunes, etc. Often they are too loose in the rear for me, I'm too ham fisted, I have to have a little grip, and while I have cars I DO like to run alot, I like to run a lot of cars.
Anyway. I hope it was a fun night. I did learn that when your box locks up and you get kicked out, when you get back,make sure the guy leading the room now KNOWS he's leading it, hehe.
I plan (unplan) to run many more, and they will be random, you'll just have to look for them, and maybe that's a good thing...
El Kochino...Some interesting points and the mass appeal type events is something I am aiming to focus on, the Fairlady Cup is just what you are talking about with gifted tunes, the Snappys STCC is also very user friendly with great easy to drive cars. The newer and slower drivers run in the Privateer Room and benefit from the Factory teams taking care of their reserve drivers needs for tunes as well. The EUSL is another event that comes with ready made cars and I have never wanted for a tune tweak there either. I have some other ideas for events bubbling under but I must be careful not to try and do too much at once...but watch this space.
Shadders Thank you for your kind comments and don't worry about being quiet during races, I don't think I said more than a few words during the whole of the last EUSL race and not one while I was racing, I rarely speak at all during a race. Good to know you want to get more involved and have no fear, as you settle in you will get the call and will be hosting rooms and helping run events and running your own before you know it.
Sherb
KRGDRK Several nails on head there, not a fan of the word clan either by the way. I think it is clear that most new members that post and participate know right off the bat they are in a special place and we will do our level best to keep it that way.
Well this thread has gone in a completely different direction from the intended...but the one thing that is clear as a bell is there is a pride and a loyalty here that needed an outlet. Not everyone is happy all the time, no news there. But if we don't like something we can change it, or create something we do like. I said earlier, this is a virtual space in which we chat and race. Because of that it, is limited only by our imaginations. Don't know about you lot but I imagine a bright and glowing future for 2O2F across many Sims, many platforms and many years
Knight thinking about the original Q\ Why do people leave.
For me it's simple, I have considered leaving due to my lack of partisipation and that is it in a nut shell my lack of partisipation, yes you have to find out how things work and boy am I still getting to grips with things and the help is brilliant but all said and done if you want to learn , play and compete their has to be a steep learning curve , the best things in live are not free effort is needed on my part as aplies to new guy's as well but saying that a one post info for new players would be great, all info needed to get started things like whitch club in forza for their area, how to join races and who can help with different issues etc ect . I for one would of followed info in a post or sticky like this !
Yes Kabar, no argument there, to get the most out of the club yes you have to put in some effort. For a pick up and play gamer this is not a natural home and I'm certain explains many of the short term visitors. I'm sure heads will be put together soon, and a sticky started with basic info and guide on how to get started.
Great stuff, I will certainly join the fun if I am on at the same time. I may like single car series as a rule, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy a mash up with some random cars from the Garage from time to time. May I introduce you to the concept of "the plin"? it is like a plan but with a built in acceptance that it could change, go wrong or even never happen at all. I plin almost everything, and have never been disappointed by the outcome.
Sounds too rigid and set fer me...hehe...
Perhaps we should start doing something like T10's weekly pit-pass report.Except a 2O4F version that would be updated on the main clan page every week or 2. If we've got any writers who'd be interested in giving it a go, just let me know.
On a side note. Lobby setups can be shared in a roundabout way.....
1-Player a sets up his room according to whatever specs are being run. (note...Player b muxt be the 1st person to join the room.
2-Player b joins the lobby.
3-Player a then pulls up his dashboard & hits the "y" button in order to exit game to Xbox dashboard.. (this way the lobby settings remain intact when he leaves)
4-Player b then gains control of lobby with settings in place. He can then go into game setup & save said settings.