Don't worry Deep, I also have never really had the the same problems "everyone" experiences with armor lock. In fact, I think armor lock is actually beneficial in btb, as some vehicles are overpowered plus the jump height is terrible. Unless you perfectly time your jump, you can't clear a warthog or revenant. Splatters-a-plenty.
So an overpowered ability should be given to you, triggered with a simple button push? All because someone lacks the skill to stay away from a vehicle or to jump at the right time. Armor lock walks on the edge of balance. In the end, I think AAs were a game mechanic risk Bungie took, that didn't work out as they had really hoped it might have.
Overpowered, to be a correct assessment, must be a measure of usage and success. No objective statistics have been published which leaves us with subjectivity.
Subjectively AL has been vilified as both overpowered and underpowered/ineffective and slowing down the game. For me and subjectively, I think the majority too, the adventure in its usage has been underpowered and ineffective. Latency plus poor timing just renders it nearly useless. Of course the other side of the coins exists but skilled players either use it well or know how to counter it easily.
Does it slow the game down? No question it slows down a moment in time for the players involved with the event. After that we must consider the subjectivity of whether the extended time was enjoyable or worth it. My own opinion says YES as an occasional event but NO as a frequent event.
AL, in my opinion, should not exist as is in Halo 4. Canonically (Halo CE) it could maybe exist as an EMP pulse that simply drains shields of the user and everyone else nearby plus disable vehicles. Potentially it should just be what it was in Halo 3, an equipment item.
Don't worry Deep, I also have never really had the the same problems "everyone" experiences with armor lock. In fact, I think armor lock is actually beneficial in btb, as some vehicles are overpowered plus the jump height is terrible. Unless you perfectly time your jump, you can't clear a warthog or revenant. Splatters-a-plenty.
So an overpowered ability should be given to you, triggered with a simple button push? All because someone lacks the skill to stay away from a vehicle or to jump at the right time. Armor lock walks on the edge of balance. In the end, I think AAs were a game mechanic risk Bungie took, that didn't work out as they had really hoped it might have.
Overpowered, to be a correct assessment, must be a measure of usage and success. No objective statistics have been published which leaves us with subjectivity.
Subjectively AL has been vilified as both overpowered and underpowered/ineffective and slowing down the game. For me and subjectively, I think the majority too, the adventure in its usage has been underpowered and ineffective. Latency plus poor timing just renders it nearly useless. Of course the other side of the coins exists but skilled players either use it well or know how to counter it easily.
Does it slow the game down? No question it slows down a moment in time for the players involved with the event. After that we must consider the subjectivity of whether the extended time was enjoyable or worth it. My own opinion says YES as an occasional event but NO as a frequent event.
AL, in my opinion, should not exist as is in Halo 4. Canonically (Halo CE) it could maybe exist as an EMP pulse that simply drains shields of the user and everyone else nearby plus disable vehicles. Potentially it should just be what it was in Halo 3, an equipment item.
So, for it to be overpowered, it has to be overused as well?
Don't worry Deep, I also have never really had the the same problems "everyone" experiences with armor lock. In fact, I think armor lock is actually beneficial in btb, as some vehicles are overpowered plus the jump height is terrible. Unless you perfectly time your jump, you can't clear a warthog or revenant. Splatters-a-plenty.
So an overpowered ability should be given to you, triggered with a simple button push? All because someone lacks the skill to stay away from a vehicle or to jump at the right time. Armor lock walks on the edge of balance. In the end, I think AAs were a game mechanic risk Bungie took, that didn't work out as they had really hoped it might have.
Overpowered, to be a correct assessment, must be a measure of usage and success. No objective statistics have been published which leaves us with subjectivity.
Subjectively AL has been vilified as both overpowered and underpowered/ineffective and slowing down the game. For me and subjectively, I think the majority too, the adventure in its usage has been underpowered and ineffective. Latency plus poor timing just renders it nearly useless. Of course the other side of the coins exists but skilled players either use it well or know how to counter it easily.
Does it slow the game down? No question it slows down a moment in time for the players involved with the event. After that we must consider the subjectivity of whether the extended time was enjoyable or worth it. My own opinion says YES as an occasional event but NO as a frequent event.
AL, in my opinion, should not exist as is in Halo 4. Canonically (Halo CE) it could maybe exist as an EMP pulse that simply drains shields of the user and everyone else nearby plus disable vehicles. Potentially it should just be what it was in Halo 3, an equipment item.
So, for it to be overpowered, it has to be overused as well?
Ugh, now I have to think about my own ramblings.
No, maybe and yes. It would definitley have to be overused effectively. Overused ineffectively renders it underpowered but a pain in the ass.
I look to MLG for help. Rockets are overpowered unless they are limited in a controlled fashion. Almost anyone can get results with rockets but thank goodness they are few and far between plus setup centrally or perfectly symmetrically.
This is all I have time for a reply. Wife home for lunch.
Don't worry Deep, I also have never really had the the same problems "everyone" experiences with armor lock. In fact, I think armor lock is actually beneficial in btb, as some vehicles are overpowered plus the jump height is terrible. Unless you perfectly time your jump, you can't clear a warthog or revenant. Splatters-a-plenty.
So an overpowered ability should be given to you, triggered with a simple button push? All because someone lacks the skill to stay away from a vehicle or to jump at the right time. Armor lock walks on the edge of balance. In the end, I think AAs were a game mechanic risk Bungie took, that didn't work out as they had really hoped it might have.
Overpowered, to be a correct assessment, must be a measure of usage and success. No objective statistics have been published which leaves us with subjectivity.
Subjectively AL has been vilified as both overpowered and underpowered/ineffective and slowing down the game. For me and subjectively, I think the majority too, the adventure in its usage has been underpowered and ineffective. Latency plus poor timing just renders it nearly useless. Of course the other side of the coins exists but skilled players either use it well or know how to counter it easily.
Does it slow the game down? No question it slows down a moment in time for the players involved with the event. After that we must consider the subjectivity of whether the extended time was enjoyable or worth it. My own opinion says YES as an occasional event but NO as a frequent event.
AL, in my opinion, should not exist as is in Halo 4. Canonically (Halo CE) it could maybe exist as an EMP pulse that simply drains shields of the user and everyone else nearby plus disable vehicles. Potentially it should just be what it was in Halo 3, an equipment item.
So, for it to be overpowered, it has to be overused as well?
Ugh, now I have to think about my own ramblings.
No, maybe and yes. It would definitley have to be overused effectively. Overused ineffectively renders it underpowered but a pain in the ass.
I look to MLG for help. Rockets are overpowered unless they are limited in a controlled fashion. Almost anyone can get results with rockets but thank goodness they are few and far between plus setup centrally or perfectly symmetrically.
This is all I have time for a reply. Wife home for lunch.
They're supposed to be power weapons. They have limited ammo and a limited respawn. That's what balances them out. Armor Lock has a cooldown and you are stationary when you use it. That doesn't balance it out with being invulnerable, creating an EMP when you come out of it, bouncing rockets off you when you're using it, unsticking plasma grenades, and any other things it also does.
Don't worry Deep, I also have never really had the the same problems "everyone" experiences with armor lock. In fact, I think armor lock is actually beneficial in btb, as some vehicles are overpowered plus the jump height is terrible. Unless you perfectly time your jump, you can't clear a warthog or revenant. Splatters-a-plenty.
So an overpowered ability should be given to you, triggered with a simple button push? All because someone lacks the skill to stay away from a vehicle or to jump at the right time. Armor lock walks on the edge of balance. In the end, I think AAs were a game mechanic risk Bungie took, that didn't work out as they had really hoped it might have.
Overpowered, to be a correct assessment, must be a measure of usage and success. No objective statistics have been published which leaves us with subjectivity.
Subjectively AL has been vilified as both overpowered and underpowered/ineffective and slowing down the game. For me and subjectively, I think the majority too, the adventure in its usage has been underpowered and ineffective. Latency plus poor timing just renders it nearly useless. Of course the other side of the coins exists but skilled players either use it well or know how to counter it easily.
Does it slow the game down? No question it slows down a moment in time for the players involved with the event. After that we must consider the subjectivity of whether the extended time was enjoyable or worth it. My own opinion says YES as an occasional event but NO as a frequent event.
AL, in my opinion, should not exist as is in Halo 4. Canonically (Halo CE) it could maybe exist as an EMP pulse that simply drains shields of the user and everyone else nearby plus disable vehicles. Potentially it should just be what it was in Halo 3, an equipment item.
So, for it to be overpowered, it has to be overused as well?
Ugh, now I have to think about my own ramblings.
No, maybe and yes. It would definitley have to be overused effectively. Overused ineffectively renders it underpowered but a pain in the ass.
I look to MLG for help. Rockets are overpowered unless they are limited in a controlled fashion. Almost anyone can get results with rockets but thank goodness they are few and far between plus setup centrally or perfectly symmetrically.
This is all I have time for a reply. Wife home for lunch.
They're supposed to be power weapons. They have limited ammo and a limited respawn. That's what balances them out. Armor Lock has a cooldown and you are stationary when you use it. That doesn't balance it out with being invulnerable, creating an EMP when you come out of it, bouncing rockets off you when you're using it, unsticking plasma grenades, and any other things it also does.
What if 60% of the time AL produces no effective result. We don't know so saying something is overpowered and it being overpowered is conjecture. We need data or at least an overwhelming majority of subjective opinion to determine the reality. If I determined whether AL was a power weapon or not I would say NO. Many people say the same thing. Even on a good day I'd be lucky to have 50% success with AL in any circumstance.
If AL were always (or majority of the time) used effectively then I would lean more towards your opinion.
Rockets are a power weapon because they work most of the time by most of the players. I'm sure this could not be said of AL.
Don't worry Deep, I also have never really had the the same problems "everyone" experiences with armor lock. In fact, I think armor lock is actually beneficial in btb, as some vehicles are overpowered plus the jump height is terrible. Unless you perfectly time your jump, you can't clear a warthog or revenant. Splatters-a-plenty.
So an overpowered ability should be given to you, triggered with a simple button push? All because someone lacks the skill to stay away from a vehicle or to jump at the right time. Armor lock walks on the edge of balance. In the end, I think AAs were a game mechanic risk Bungie took, that didn't work out as they had really hoped it might have.
Overpowered, to be a correct assessment, must be a measure of usage and success. No objective statistics have been published which leaves us with subjectivity.
Subjectively AL has been vilified as both overpowered and underpowered/ineffective and slowing down the game. For me and subjectively, I think the majority too, the adventure in its usage has been underpowered and ineffective. Latency plus poor timing just renders it nearly useless. Of course the other side of the coins exists but skilled players either use it well or know how to counter it easily.
Does it slow the game down? No question it slows down a moment in time for the players involved with the event. After that we must consider the subjectivity of whether the extended time was enjoyable or worth it. My own opinion says YES as an occasional event but NO as a frequent event.
AL, in my opinion, should not exist as is in Halo 4. Canonically (Halo CE) it could maybe exist as an EMP pulse that simply drains shields of the user and everyone else nearby plus disable vehicles. Potentially it should just be what it was in Halo 3, an equipment item.
So, for it to be overpowered, it has to be overused as well?
Ugh, now I have to think about my own ramblings.
No, maybe and yes. It would definitley have to be overused effectively. Overused ineffectively renders it underpowered but a pain in the ass.
I look to MLG for help. Rockets are overpowered unless they are limited in a controlled fashion. Almost anyone can get results with rockets but thank goodness they are few and far between plus setup centrally or perfectly symmetrically.
This is all I have time for a reply. Wife home for lunch.
They're supposed to be power weapons. They have limited ammo and a limited respawn. That's what balances them out. Armor Lock has a cooldown and you are stationary when you use it. That doesn't balance it out with being invulnerable, creating an EMP when you come out of it, bouncing rockets off you when you're using it, unsticking plasma grenades, and any other things it also does.
What if 60% of the time AL produces no effective result. We don't know so saying something is overpowered and it being overpowered is conjecture. We need data or at least an overwhelming majority of subjective opinion to determine the reality. If I determined whether AL was a power weapon or not I would say NO. Many people say the same thing. Even on a good day I'd be lucky to have 50% success with AL in any circumstance.
If AL were always (or majority of the time) used effectively then I would lean more towards your opinion.
Rockets are a power weapon because they work most of the time by most of the players. I'm sure this could not be said of AL.
Don't worry Deep, I also have never really had the the same problems "everyone" experiences with armor lock. In fact, I think armor lock is actually beneficial in btb, as some vehicles are overpowered plus the jump height is terrible. Unless you perfectly time your jump, you can't clear a warthog or revenant. Splatters-a-plenty.
So an overpowered ability should be given to you, triggered with a simple button push? All because someone lacks the skill to stay away from a vehicle or to jump at the right time. Armor lock walks on the edge of balance. In the end, I think AAs were a game mechanic risk Bungie took, that didn't work out as they had really hoped it might have.
Overpowered, to be a correct assessment, must be a measure of usage and success. No objective statistics have been published which leaves us with subjectivity.
Subjectively AL has been vilified as both overpowered and underpowered/ineffective and slowing down the game. For me and subjectively, I think the majority too, the adventure in its usage has been underpowered and ineffective. Latency plus poor timing just renders it nearly useless. Of course the other side of the coins exists but skilled players either use it well or know how to counter it easily.
Does it slow the game down? No question it slows down a moment in time for the players involved with the event. After that we must consider the subjectivity of whether the extended time was enjoyable or worth it. My own opinion says YES as an occasional event but NO as a frequent event.
AL, in my opinion, should not exist as is in Halo 4. Canonically (Halo CE) it could maybe exist as an EMP pulse that simply drains shields of the user and everyone else nearby plus disable vehicles. Potentially it should just be what it was in Halo 3, an equipment item.
So, for it to be overpowered, it has to be overused as well?
Ugh, now I have to think about my own ramblings.
No, maybe and yes. It would definitley have to be overused effectively. Overused ineffectively renders it underpowered but a pain in the ass.
I look to MLG for help. Rockets are overpowered unless they are limited in a controlled fashion. Almost anyone can get results with rockets but thank goodness they are few and far between plus setup centrally or perfectly symmetrically.
This is all I have time for a reply. Wife home for lunch.
They're supposed to be power weapons. They have limited ammo and a limited respawn. That's what balances them out. Armor Lock has a cooldown and you are stationary when you use it. That doesn't balance it out with being invulnerable, creating an EMP when you come out of it, bouncing rockets off you when you're using it, unsticking plasma grenades, and any other things it also does.
What if 60% of the time AL produces no effective result. We don't know so saying something is overpowered and it being overpowered is conjecture. We need data or at least an overwhelming majority of subjective opinion to determine the reality. If I determined whether AL was a power weapon or not I would say NO. Many people say the same thing. Even on a good day I'd be lucky to have 50% success with AL in any circumstance.
If AL were always (or majority of the time) used effectively then I would lean more towards your opinion.
Rockets are a power weapon because they work most of the time by most of the players. I'm sure this could not be said of AL.
I'm honestly not even sure what you said here.
I think he's trying to say anyone can pick up a rocket and get a kill, but not everyone can use AL effectively. Like the kids who use it to avoid a beat down and instead get fragged as soon as they come out of it.
Personally I see no problem with it. Yes, in that specific situation for those 2 people involved it slows the game down for a few seconds, but how is that any different from someone sprinting behind cover or jetpacking above you or staying cloaked on the fringe of a map? Most of the time I see people go into AL it results in them getting blown up once it pops. Only time it's really used effectively is BTB to take out a vehicle, and I see no problem with forcing warthog drivers to think about what they're doing instead of just running over anyone in a blue outfit.
I think AL gets so much hate because when you hit that guy with a rocket and it just bounces off you feel like you got cheaped out of a kill. But at the same time you don't look at someone flying with a jetpack and think they're being cheap when you can't kill them with a rocket. Would AL be more balanced if the person using it had some sort of visual identifier like the backpack for jetpackers?
Don't worry Deep, I also have never really had the the same problems "everyone" experiences with armor lock. In fact, I think armor lock is actually beneficial in btb, as some vehicles are overpowered plus the jump height is terrible. Unless you perfectly time your jump, you can't clear a warthog or revenant. Splatters-a-plenty.
So an overpowered ability should be given to you, triggered with a simple button push? All because someone lacks the skill to stay away from a vehicle or to jump at the right time. Armor lock walks on the edge of balance. In the end, I think AAs were a game mechanic risk Bungie took, that didn't work out as they had really hoped it might have.
Overpowered, to be a correct assessment, must be a measure of usage and success. No objective statistics have been published which leaves us with subjectivity.
Subjectively AL has been vilified as both overpowered and underpowered/ineffective and slowing down the game. For me and subjectively, I think the majority too, the adventure in its usage has been underpowered and ineffective. Latency plus poor timing just renders it nearly useless. Of course the other side of the coins exists but skilled players either use it well or know how to counter it easily.
Does it slow the game down? No question it slows down a moment in time for the players involved with the event. After that we must consider the subjectivity of whether the extended time was enjoyable or worth it. My own opinion says YES as an occasional event but NO as a frequent event.
AL, in my opinion, should not exist as is in Halo 4. Canonically (Halo CE) it could maybe exist as an EMP pulse that simply drains shields of the user and everyone else nearby plus disable vehicles. Potentially it should just be what it was in Halo 3, an equipment item.
So, for it to be overpowered, it has to be overused as well?
Ugh, now I have to think about my own ramblings.
No, maybe and yes. It would definitley have to be overused effectively. Overused ineffectively renders it underpowered but a pain in the ass.
I look to MLG for help. Rockets are overpowered unless they are limited in a controlled fashion. Almost anyone can get results with rockets but thank goodness they are few and far between plus setup centrally or perfectly symmetrically.
This is all I have time for a reply. Wife home for lunch.
They're supposed to be power weapons. They have limited ammo and a limited respawn. That's what balances them out. Armor Lock has a cooldown and you are stationary when you use it. That doesn't balance it out with being invulnerable, creating an EMP when you come out of it, bouncing rockets off you when you're using it, unsticking plasma grenades, and any other things it also does.
What if 60% of the time AL produces no effective result. We don't know so saying something is overpowered and it being overpowered is conjecture. We need data or at least an overwhelming majority of subjective opinion to determine the reality. If I determined whether AL was a power weapon or not I would say NO. Many people say the same thing. Even on a good day I'd be lucky to have 50% success with AL in any circumstance.
If AL were always (or majority of the time) used effectively then I would lean more towards your opinion.
Rockets are a power weapon because they work most of the time by most of the players. I'm sure this could not be said of AL.
I'm honestly not even sure what you said here.
I think he's trying to say anyone can pick up a rocket and get a kill, but not everyone can use AL effectively. Like the kids who use it to avoid a beat down and instead get fragged as soon as they come out of it.
Personally I see no problem with it. Yes, in that specific situation for those 2 people involved it slows the game down for a few seconds, but how is that any different from someone sprinting behind cover or jetpacking above you or staying cloaked on the fringe of a map? Most of the time I see people go into AL it results in them getting blown up once it pops. Only time it's really used effectively is BTB to take out a vehicle, and I see no problem with forcing warthog drivers to think about what they're doing instead of just running over anyone in a blue outfit.
I think AL gets so much hate because when you hit that guy with a rocket and it just bounces off you feel like you got cheaped out of a kill. But at the same time you don't look at someone flying with a jetpack and think they're being cheap when you can't kill them with a rocket. Would AL be more balanced if the person using it had some sort of visual identifier like the backpack for jetpackers?
Yeah, pretty much this.
AL has a lot of interesting characteristics that when you add them up sound kind of overpowered. The reality in practice seems quite different than that.
part of the balance is that anyone/everyone can use it.
if everyone has it, that sounds pretty balanced to me.
my problem with it is how it affects the game play. it drastically changes how some maps play, and i don't like it.
i will agree with laser (i can't believe i just typed that) that it certainly has a place in BTB. it can be used to counter the overpowered vehicles & lack of jump height.
all in all, i hate it. i'd rather it not be there, but that's a personal preference based on how i like to play the game.
AL makes my kids come down stairs and say, "dad! chill out! it's just a game!".
underpowered, overpowered - I don't know and don't care the technical reasons for the annoyance. It's annoying and kills the game IMO, and that's all that matters to me.
underpowered, overpowered - I don't know and don't care the technical reasons for the annoyance. It's annoying and kills the game IMO, and that's all that matters to me.
^^This^^
This past weekend I started playing some Halo 3 again and what a breath of fresh air. Sounds strange for an old game, but I can honestly say I did NOT miss the armor abilities.
The game is all about me, a BR, map control, power weapon control, and my skills (albeit bad skills). I also learned I had developed many bad habits from having relied on Sprint to get me out of a bad situation.
Where Halo 3 feels like more of a shooter, Reach just feels kind of gimicky.
I wake up only to see a quote train heading to Complaintville. Anyway, I believe you could consider almost any armor ability overpowered. On smaller maps, sprint and evade could be considered overpowered due to their ability to escape death by quickly moving behind cover. Yet we still mainly hear about jetpacks and armor lock as ruining the experience. On vertical maps designed moreso for jetpacks (like Countdown), I still hear people complaining about jetpacks and armor lock. Interesting...
In regards to armor lock in btb being overpowered, I can assure you, it's not. BTB maps in Reach are huge and open. If you aren't equipping sprint or evade (they have removed evade btw), then you're at a considerable disadvantage. Traversing large, open spaces in a hurry is a must with the DMR's ability to cross-map fire. If you're using armor lock in btb, you're using it for a specific reason, mainly to try and disable or destroy an enemy vehicle that's decimating your team. Funny thing is, when I'm trolling the enemy team with a Revanent or ghost, I rarely get killed by trying to splatter an armor locking opponent. Why? Because it's easy to pick out which people have it equipped. Are they sprinting to cover? Are they jetpacking to cover? Did they deploy a hologram to help evade death/splatter? If you answer no to these questions, that person has armor lock and you should probably use the vehicle's guns rather than trying to splatter.
Dixon I gotta ask. You MLG types like to take out lots of the new stuff in whatever game you play and try to turn it into what the older versions were. Why even play the new games? Wouldn't it just be easier to stick with Halo 3 then move up to Reach when Halo 4 comes out? Or would you still stick with 3 because 4 has (insert new thing here)? If you don't like the AAs, don't play with them. They have playlists without those.
Back on the main thread topic
Shadow wrote:
Maybe. But some people only play to be a PITA and don't care about rank like we do.
There's always gonna be people like that. No matter how big the penalty they'll quit as soon as someone else gets the rockets or they get assassinated. Only way to stop those people is ban them from playing when they quit, but then you risk alienating people with shitty internet or who wind up having to drop for whatever personal reasons. I think just stopping the quitters who are afraid of hurting their k/d with a bad game would be a good start.
Dixon I gotta ask. You MLG types like to take out lots of the new stuff in whatever game you play and try to turn it into what the older versions were. Why even play the new games? Wouldn't it just be easier to stick with Halo 3 then move up to Reach when Halo 4 comes out? Or would you still stick with 3 because 4 has (insert new thing here)? If you don't like the AAs, don't play with them. They have playlists without those.
Back on the main thread topic
Shadow wrote:
Maybe. But some people only play to be a PITA and don't care about rank like we do.
There's always gonna be people like that. No matter how big the penalty they'll quit as soon as someone else gets the rockets or they get assassinated. Only way to stop those people is ban them from playing when they quit, but then you risk alienating people with shitty internet or who wind up having to drop for whatever personal reasons. I think just stopping the quitters who are afraid of hurting their k/d with a bad game would be a good start.
Maps, mostly. That's where Halo 3 shone and where Reach really lacked. Right now, there's been a move in the clan to play more Halo, and we all agree that Halo 3 is better and more fun, but we'll probably be able to play with others easier if we play Reach, so there's a current conundrum.
So why not just play Reach to be social then pop in 3 to be competitive? Or make the Halo 3 maps in forge and play, doesn't seem very Major League to complain about everything to me :p
So why not just play Reach to be social then pop in 3 to be competitive? Or make the Halo 3 maps in forge and play, doesn't seem very Major League to complain about everything to me :p
Ah, I was waiting for the Forge problem.
Reach's Forge is bad. It lags. Believe me, folks have tried remaking old maps in it, and with a lot of geometry, it lags noticably. Even the vanilla Sanctuary made by Bungie and shipped out with the game lags. That's why MLG remade it so it doesn't lag as much and plays a little more true to the Halo 2 version.
People aren't playing as much Halo 3. Hard to get a game in something that as many people aren't playing. Personally, I just re-bought Reach today and look forward to trying to figure the motherfucking DMR out finally.
It's not really complaining as it is pointing out the problems and shortfalls. MLG modes and maps are all about rebalancing out the gameplay and bringing out fairness. I know how you stand on it and you certainly know where I stand on it, and we're not going to change anyone's minds, which is fine.
So why not just play Reach to be social then pop in 3 to be competitive? Or make the Halo 3 maps in forge and play, doesn't seem very Major League to complain about everything to me :p
It's not really complaining as it is pointing out the problems and shortfalls. MLG modes and maps are all about rebalancing out the gameplay and bringing out fairness. I know how you stand on it and you certainly know where I stand on it, and we're not going to change anyone's minds, which is fine.
Probably not, doesn't mean I won't give ya shit about it.
You'll like that DMR once ya figure it out, nothin like poppin heads across the map. Let me know if ya wanna play some Grifball. :D
So why not just play Reach to be social then pop in 3 to be competitive? Or make the Halo 3 maps in forge and play, doesn't seem very Major League to complain about everything to me :p
It's not really complaining as it is pointing out the problems and shortfalls. MLG modes and maps are all about rebalancing out the gameplay and bringing out fairness. I know how you stand on it and you certainly know where I stand on it, and we're not going to change anyone's minds, which is fine.
Probably not, doesn't mean I won't give ya shit about it.
You'll like that DMR once ya figure it out, nothin like poppin heads across the map. Let me know if ya wanna play some Grifball. :D
Zero Bloom DMR felt very good. We felt like we could actually hit shit across the map that we wanted to. Reduced bloom might be fine, though.
It's not really complaining as it is pointing out the problems and shortfalls. MLG modes and maps are all about rebalancing out the gameplay and bringing out fairness. I know how you stand on it and you certainly know where I stand on it, and we're not going to change anyone's minds, which is fine.
I don't think this is true, especially when comparing to most Halo maps/gametypes (which I think are the most part balanced). I think MLG is designed for more for FAST games and balance. They attempt to design a product that will be more exciting to play and more exciting to watch. And after playing some MLG games lately, I have to say that they are much more exciting to play.
ZB and 85% bloom are great. I can't play full bloom anymore even though team slayer (which has full bloom and non-nerfed armor lock) is one of the most populated playlists. However, at times, ZB feels almost too powerful. You have to choose your route carefully on open maps.
ZB and 85% bloom are great. I can't play full bloom anymore even though team slayer (which has full bloom and non-nerfed armor lock) is one of the most populated playlists. However, at times, ZB feels almost too powerful. You have to choose your route carefully on open maps.
Subjectively AL has been vilified as both overpowered and underpowered/ineffective and slowing down the game. For me and subjectively, I think the majority too, the adventure in its usage has been underpowered and ineffective. Latency plus poor timing just renders it nearly useless. Of course the other side of the coins exists but skilled players either use it well or know how to counter it easily.
Does it slow the game down? No question it slows down a moment in time for the players involved with the event. After that we must consider the subjectivity of whether the extended time was enjoyable or worth it. My own opinion says YES as an occasional event but NO as a frequent event.
AL, in my opinion, should not exist as is in Halo 4. Canonically (Halo CE) it could maybe exist as an EMP pulse that simply drains shields of the user and everyone else nearby plus disable vehicles. Potentially it should just be what it was in Halo 3, an equipment item.
So, for it to be overpowered, it has to be overused as well?
No, maybe and yes. It would definitley have to be overused effectively. Overused ineffectively renders it underpowered but a pain in the ass.
I look to MLG for help. Rockets are overpowered unless they are limited in a controlled fashion. Almost anyone can get results with rockets but thank goodness they are few and far between plus setup centrally or perfectly symmetrically.
This is all I have time for a reply. Wife home for lunch.
They're supposed to be power weapons. They have limited ammo and a limited respawn. That's what balances them out. Armor Lock has a cooldown and you are stationary when you use it. That doesn't balance it out with being invulnerable, creating an EMP when you come out of it, bouncing rockets off you when you're using it, unsticking plasma grenades, and any other things it also does.
What if 60% of the time AL produces no effective result. We don't know so saying something is overpowered and it being overpowered is conjecture. We need data or at least an overwhelming majority of subjective opinion to determine the reality. If I determined whether AL was a power weapon or not I would say NO. Many people say the same thing. Even on a good day I'd be lucky to have 50% success with AL in any circumstance.
If AL were always (or majority of the time) used effectively then I would lean more towards your opinion.
Rockets are a power weapon because they work most of the time by most of the players. I'm sure this could not be said of AL.
I'm honestly not even sure what you said here.
I think he's trying to say anyone can pick up a rocket and get a kill, but not everyone can use AL effectively. Like the kids who use it to avoid a beat down and instead get fragged as soon as they come out of it.
Personally I see no problem with it. Yes, in that specific situation for those 2 people involved it slows the game down for a few seconds, but how is that any different from someone sprinting behind cover or jetpacking above you or staying cloaked on the fringe of a map? Most of the time I see people go into AL it results in them getting blown up once it pops. Only time it's really used effectively is BTB to take out a vehicle, and I see no problem with forcing warthog drivers to think about what they're doing instead of just running over anyone in a blue outfit.
I think AL gets so much hate because when you hit that guy with a rocket and it just bounces off you feel like you got cheaped out of a kill. But at the same time you don't look at someone flying with a jetpack and think they're being cheap when you can't kill them with a rocket. Would AL be more balanced if the person using it had some sort of visual identifier like the backpack for jetpackers?
AL has a lot of interesting characteristics that when you add them up sound kind of overpowered. The reality in practice seems quite different than that.
Equating Armor Lock with Jetpack, another Armor Ability that was a horrible addition certainly doesn't help me see your point any more clearly.
underpowered, overpowered - I don't know and don't care the technical reasons for the annoyance. It's annoying and kills the game IMO, and that's all that matters to me.
^^This^^
This past weekend I started playing some Halo 3 again and what a breath of fresh air. Sounds strange for an old game, but I can honestly say I did NOT miss the armor abilities.
The game is all about me, a BR, map control, power weapon control, and my skills (albeit bad skills). I also learned I had developed many bad habits from having relied on Sprint to get me out of a bad situation.
Where Halo 3 feels like more of a shooter, Reach just feels kind of gimicky.
I wake up only to see a quote train heading to Complaintville. Anyway, I believe you could consider almost any armor ability overpowered. On smaller maps, sprint and evade could be considered overpowered due to their ability to escape death by quickly moving behind cover. Yet we still mainly hear about jetpacks and armor lock as ruining the experience. On vertical maps designed moreso for jetpacks (like Countdown), I still hear people complaining about jetpacks and armor lock. Interesting...
In regards to armor lock in btb being overpowered, I can assure you, it's not. BTB maps in Reach are huge and open. If you aren't equipping sprint or evade (they have removed evade btw), then you're at a considerable disadvantage. Traversing large, open spaces in a hurry is a must with the DMR's ability to cross-map fire. If you're using armor lock in btb, you're using it for a specific reason, mainly to try and disable or destroy an enemy vehicle that's decimating your team. Funny thing is, when I'm trolling the enemy team with a Revanent or ghost, I rarely get killed by trying to splatter an armor locking opponent. Why? Because it's easy to pick out which people have it equipped. Are they sprinting to cover? Are they jetpacking to cover? Did they deploy a hologram to help evade death/splatter? If you answer no to these questions, that person has armor lock and you should probably use the vehicle's guns rather than trying to splatter.
Well. Looks like I broke V3.
great...
Dixon I gotta ask. You MLG types like to take out lots of the new stuff in whatever game you play and try to turn it into what the older versions were. Why even play the new games? Wouldn't it just be easier to stick with Halo 3 then move up to Reach when Halo 4 comes out? Or would you still stick with 3 because 4 has (insert new thing here)? If you don't like the AAs, don't play with them. They have playlists without those.
Back on the main thread topic
There's always gonna be people like that. No matter how big the penalty they'll quit as soon as someone else gets the rockets or they get assassinated. Only way to stop those people is ban them from playing when they quit, but then you risk alienating people with shitty internet or who wind up having to drop for whatever personal reasons. I think just stopping the quitters who are afraid of hurting their k/d with a bad game would be a good start.
Maps, mostly. That's where Halo 3 shone and where Reach really lacked. Right now, there's been a move in the clan to play more Halo, and we all agree that Halo 3 is better and more fun, but we'll probably be able to play with others easier if we play Reach, so there's a current conundrum.
So why not just play Reach to be social then pop in 3 to be competitive? Or make the Halo 3 maps in forge and play, doesn't seem very Major League to complain about everything to me :p
Ah, I was waiting for the Forge problem.
Reach's Forge is bad. It lags. Believe me, folks have tried remaking old maps in it, and with a lot of geometry, it lags noticably. Even the vanilla Sanctuary made by Bungie and shipped out with the game lags. That's why MLG remade it so it doesn't lag as much and plays a little more true to the Halo 2 version.
People aren't playing as much Halo 3. Hard to get a game in something that as many people aren't playing. Personally, I just re-bought Reach today and look forward to trying to figure the motherfucking DMR out finally.
It's not really complaining as it is pointing out the problems and shortfalls. MLG modes and maps are all about rebalancing out the gameplay and bringing out fairness. I know how you stand on it and you certainly know where I stand on it, and we're not going to change anyone's minds, which is fine.
Probably not, doesn't mean I won't give ya shit about it.
You'll like that DMR once ya figure it out, nothin like poppin heads across the map. Let me know if ya wanna play some Grifball. :D
Zero Bloom DMR felt very good. We felt like we could actually hit shit across the map that we wanted to. Reduced bloom might be fine, though.
I don't think this is true, especially when comparing to most Halo maps/gametypes (which I think are the most part balanced). I think MLG is designed for more for FAST games and balance. They attempt to design a product that will be more exciting to play and more exciting to watch. And after playing some MLG games lately, I have to say that they are much more exciting to play.
NG
ZB and 85% bloom are great. I can't play full bloom anymore even though team slayer (which has full bloom and non-nerfed armor lock) is one of the most populated playlists. However, at times, ZB feels almost too powerful. You have to choose your route carefully on open maps.
And the pistol in ZB playlist.
[IMG]http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac292/OMGaLaserPewPew/f2a4f9e5_132353...
Yeah, that thing is an animal. It killed in under a second.