i wonder if that means the fanatec pedals will work, i would bet IF its a usb connection from pedal to wheel they would, i might consider itr then but it would be well into next year before i could afford it
I just spent about an hour watching videos of XBox One and educating myself on wheel/pedal options. Looks like my Fanatec CSR and Club Sport pedals will be relegated to XBox 360 only.
Today I'm pre ordering the box, 2 controllers, FM5, and the TM 458 Wheel/pedal set, although I may cancel the wheel order as more reviews come in and more info about the Madcatz offerings is available. I've given up on the Fanatec's ever working on XBOne.
This wheel does look good....I too have the Fanatec CSR/Clubsports and when I heard that Fanatec is out of money my dreams for my wheel to work is gone....With all this I dont blame MS I think Fanatec should have steped up....This is just my opinion...because NOBODY other than a couple guys at MS and Fanatec know the real deal.....Anyway...I will still play FM5 about an hour after midnight with my controler....And maybe by the end of the year Santa will bring be a wheel/pedal combo....If I cant have a clutch than I dont want pedals.....
Where did you hear that Fanatec doesn’t have enough money to run their operations? I think it’s more of an licensing deal between Microsoft and 3rd party peripheral manufacturers where Microsoft wants to get their money twice from previous wheel owners. There really is no technical reason why they couldn’t make older wheels compatible with the Xbox One.
I hate to be the one correcting anyone else, as I'm usually the one who needs to be corrected (and my wife reminds me of that twice daily), however, as reported thus far on discussions of controllers for Xbox1, it absolutely is a technical reason that prevents older controllers from being compatible.
The cynic in me: Tell me in detail which technical modifications weren’t done on purpose to eliminate backward-compatibility and what would—even with some eventual changes in the communication protocol—speak against officially licensed dongles that basically just map older commands to newer ones. What technical reason exists that even the Xbox 360 has a security handshake on its otherwise standard default USB port, excluding the fact that Microsoft wants everyone to pay license fees?
I’m an indie developer, you can go down to the bit-level and get me excited.
Chiefsucker, I just wrote a really long response to your 'Sophist' 'prove it to me arguement so I can pick away at every point you make while providing no evidence of my own to back up my statements'. However I've thought better of it and instead I'll point out that that information is not publically available, you can only infer from what details have been made public that there have been significant changes. And as an indie developer you should already know that Backwards Compatibility comes at great expense of effort in both test and coding and causes much complexity leading to implementations that are error prone and complicated to extend further in the future. Judging from what PS4 FAQ's state about peripheral support, they aren't natively supporting backwards compatibility either, they are passing the complexity onto the game developer to implement in game code instead, which I'm sure you can agree will cause it's own difficulties in maintaining a uniform experience across the platform.
I do not mind requiring us to buy new controllers, but keep in mind that many of us spent hundreds of dollars, if not over $1000, to buy official Forza Motorsport Fanatec gear that apparently will not work with Forza 5 on the Xbox One. That is just too much of an investment to be OK with M$ saying no to backwards compatibility. When I pre-ordered it in September 2011, my CSR Elite cost me $560. It is ridiculous that the wheel will not work on the newest version of Forza released barely more than two years later.
All of that being said, the new Thrustmaster and Mad Catz wheels both look impressive. Heck, if the new Thrustmaster works on the PC, I might even sell my T500 and buy the new wheel.
Has everyone forgotton the role out of the "Official" Forza wheels? Fanatec wheels weren't avaiblable on time at first, then they were, then they weren't again. Then there was the problem with all the failures and the customer service. So why should M$ (I love how people do that by the way because you know its horrible for a company to want to make money) go back to Fanatec? If you hired and electrician to come add a couple of outlets to your house and then spent the next few months having to call him back out to repair them would you hire that same electrician the next time you needed work done?
I have tried to keep out of the "OMG MY SHIT WON"T WORK WITH XBONE" argument but please someone show me where it said that when you buy this wheel it will work with our next system we release. People want new technology but get mad when their stuff won't work with it. Trust me I have been a pc gamer for a while and gone through plenty of times where motherboards upgrade and the memory you have now won't transfer over, or the cpu is a different socket. It's the price of technology moving forward. If MS didn't advance enough with the new hardware everyone would complain that they didn't do enough and that it sucks.
So yes as it was labeled the Official Forza wheel I don't think they intended that to mean for the rest of time to include when Forza 10 comes out in 2035. As stated before until the game AND the xbox one comes out we don't truely know how things will work. We pretty much know that Fanatec won't work initially, we know that Madcatz and Thrustmasters do have wheels. I am personally going to just use the controller for a while and see what the best option is later. Is that MS or Fanatecs fault, nope. Its my accepting that to use the newest technology that I will be forgoing the use of my Fanatec CSR.
Ammodawg, I totally get what you are saying. New technology does come with a price and I am all for companies pushing us forward. For example, no one is complaining that Forza 5 is only coming out on Xbox One, but not the 360. As to wheels and other expensive peripherals released within the last year or two, however, I think it is a different story. M$ and Sony clearly have the flexibility to allow backwards compatibility. Sony allowed older wheels to work on the PS3 and it looks like the PS4 will also allow older equipment to work. My Sony Pulse Elite headset looks like it will work on the PS4 as well. Sony's strategy will make them money, as Thrustmaster and other companies will no doubt release official PS4 wheels, headsets, etc., but the older stuff will still work. M$, however, by using a proprietary protocol, is intentionally boxing out older peripherals, including the $600 CSR Elite wheel, the $300 Tritton Warhead headset and lots of other expensive peripherals that many folks spent lots of $$$ on within the last year or two. To make matters worse, M$ and Turn 10 allowed Fanatec to market and sell expensive Forza Motorsport wheels that will not work with Forza 5. I am sorry but I have a problem with that. The Forza wheels only came out two years ago, yet they are already obsolete as to Forza game play.
In the end, M$ has the right to do what its doing, but many gamers will walk, most likely into the arms of the PC and/or PS3/PS4.
The wheel thing I can see from the consumers end is a monetary hurdle, from Microsoft's view I can see why they didn't continue with Fanatec, and seriously, the headset issue?
That's a huge leap forward in sound quality and consequently, consumer perceived quality. It IS a major step forward. I truly expect Forza 5 to sound amazing while improving gameplay through less drag on the system..
Both of the other companies have huge resources compared to Fanatec, better production capabilities, and as far as I can tell, better quality control procedures. Ammo's right, the last rollout was horrendous and Microsoft's done with them as a direct licensing source. If it were our organization here, it would have went the same way.
As far as down the road, the list of stuff, high dollar at that, that I can recite that's only good for 30 days, 90 days, a year, is quite long, and model changes after one year rendering past parts etc obsolete is huge.
All that said, I do understand that we are talking about your wallet, and it's your wallet to vote with.
I'm not sure the words Madcatz and QC go well together.
Previous attempts at wheels have had a reputation for being very shoddy. OK, I'm basing that on my interpretation of forum threads. Highly suspect though and would not touch it until its proven.
If either TM or MC come in as quality after 3 months I might jump. I'll wait to hear from some trusted sources here.
oh, and I have very little respect for Thomas at Fanatec in terms of business sense and communication. He's turned a hobby into a business, but pushed too far to fast. Promised, did not deliver, so made himself look like a liar at times.
I agree he has blotted his copybook with MS. But the products, minus teething problems, are sublime.
But he hasn't the capability to mass produce, nor the apparent capability or resources to do the necessary testing prior to launch of a product. Customer service afyer the fact is great and all, but it's reactive, not proactive. And if you really wanna get nasty about it, it's using the public's money to beta test. On top of that, Basher found two or three instances where a slight increase in cost/design would have greatly improved the products performance.
Having said that, and being a CSR Elite user/beta tester, if he gets something to market sometime next year, and reviews of the TM or MC are anything less than stellar, then I'll be kicking down his door and throwing money at him to Beta test :)
ive got used to the fact I'm not going to be on board the first wave now. I'm quite happy to wait and see what the best options will be.
Looks like a variant of this is one of the options, I like it:
http://youtu.be/NtybVOLUytY
i wonder if that means the fanatec pedals will work, i would bet IF its a usb connection from pedal to wheel they would, i might consider itr then but it would be well into next year before i could afford it
I just spent about an hour watching videos of XBox One and educating myself on wheel/pedal options. Looks like my Fanatec CSR and Club Sport pedals will be relegated to XBox 360 only.
Today I'm pre ordering the box, 2 controllers, FM5, and the TM 458 Wheel/pedal set, although I may cancel the wheel order as more reviews come in and more info about the Madcatz offerings is available. I've given up on the Fanatec's ever working on XBOne.
This wheel does look good....I too have the Fanatec CSR/Clubsports and when I heard that Fanatec is out of money my dreams for my wheel to work is gone....With all this I dont blame MS I think Fanatec should have steped up....This is just my opinion...because NOBODY other than a couple guys at MS and Fanatec know the real deal.....Anyway...I will still play FM5 about an hour after midnight with my controler....And maybe by the end of the year Santa will bring be a wheel/pedal combo....If I cant have a clutch than I dont want pedals.....
I paddle shift, don't need or want a clutch. But if I can't have a good quality wheel/pedal set with force feedback, then I don't wanna race at all.
Where did you hear that Fanatec doesn’t have enough money to run their operations? I think it’s more of an licensing deal between Microsoft and 3rd party peripheral manufacturers where Microsoft wants to get their money twice from previous wheel owners. There really is no technical reason why they couldn’t make older wheels compatible with the Xbox One.
i paddle shift as well but still use the clutch
I hate to be the one correcting anyone else, as I'm usually the one who needs to be corrected (and my wife reminds me of that twice daily), however, as reported thus far on discussions of controllers for Xbox1, it absolutely is a technical reason that prevents older controllers from being compatible.
The cynic in me: Tell me in detail which technical modifications weren’t done on purpose to eliminate backward-compatibility and what would—even with some eventual changes in the communication protocol—speak against officially licensed dongles that basically just map older commands to newer ones. What technical reason exists that even the Xbox 360 has a security handshake on its otherwise standard default USB port, excluding the fact that Microsoft wants everyone to pay license fees?
I’m an indie developer, you can go down to the bit-level and get me excited.
Chiefsucker, I just wrote a really long response to your 'Sophist' 'prove it to me arguement so I can pick away at every point you make while providing no evidence of my own to back up my statements'. However I've thought better of it and instead I'll point out that that information is not publically available, you can only infer from what details have been made public that there have been significant changes. And as an indie developer you should already know that Backwards Compatibility comes at great expense of effort in both test and coding and causes much complexity leading to implementations that are error prone and complicated to extend further in the future. Judging from what PS4 FAQ's state about peripheral support, they aren't natively supporting backwards compatibility either, they are passing the complexity onto the game developer to implement in game code instead, which I'm sure you can agree will cause it's own difficulties in maintaining a uniform experience across the platform.
I do not mind requiring us to buy new controllers, but keep in mind that many of us spent hundreds of dollars, if not over $1000, to buy official Forza Motorsport Fanatec gear that apparently will not work with Forza 5 on the Xbox One. That is just too much of an investment to be OK with M$ saying no to backwards compatibility. When I pre-ordered it in September 2011, my CSR Elite cost me $560. It is ridiculous that the wheel will not work on the newest version of Forza released barely more than two years later.
All of that being said, the new Thrustmaster and Mad Catz wheels both look impressive. Heck, if the new Thrustmaster works on the PC, I might even sell my T500 and buy the new wheel.
Has everyone forgotton the role out of the "Official" Forza wheels? Fanatec wheels weren't avaiblable on time at first, then they were, then they weren't again. Then there was the problem with all the failures and the customer service. So why should M$ (I love how people do that by the way because you know its horrible for a company to want to make money) go back to Fanatec? If you hired and electrician to come add a couple of outlets to your house and then spent the next few months having to call him back out to repair them would you hire that same electrician the next time you needed work done?
I have tried to keep out of the "OMG MY SHIT WON"T WORK WITH XBONE" argument but please someone show me where it said that when you buy this wheel it will work with our next system we release. People want new technology but get mad when their stuff won't work with it. Trust me I have been a pc gamer for a while and gone through plenty of times where motherboards upgrade and the memory you have now won't transfer over, or the cpu is a different socket. It's the price of technology moving forward. If MS didn't advance enough with the new hardware everyone would complain that they didn't do enough and that it sucks.
So yes as it was labeled the Official Forza wheel I don't think they intended that to mean for the rest of time to include when Forza 10 comes out in 2035. As stated before until the game AND the xbox one comes out we don't truely know how things will work. We pretty much know that Fanatec won't work initially, we know that Madcatz and Thrustmasters do have wheels. I am personally going to just use the controller for a while and see what the best option is later. Is that MS or Fanatecs fault, nope. Its my accepting that to use the newest technology that I will be forgoing the use of my Fanatec CSR.
Ammodawg, I totally get what you are saying. New technology does come with a price and I am all for companies pushing us forward. For example, no one is complaining that Forza 5 is only coming out on Xbox One, but not the 360. As to wheels and other expensive peripherals released within the last year or two, however, I think it is a different story. M$ and Sony clearly have the flexibility to allow backwards compatibility. Sony allowed older wheels to work on the PS3 and it looks like the PS4 will also allow older equipment to work. My Sony Pulse Elite headset looks like it will work on the PS4 as well. Sony's strategy will make them money, as Thrustmaster and other companies will no doubt release official PS4 wheels, headsets, etc., but the older stuff will still work. M$, however, by using a proprietary protocol, is intentionally boxing out older peripherals, including the $600 CSR Elite wheel, the $300 Tritton Warhead headset and lots of other expensive peripherals that many folks spent lots of $$$ on within the last year or two. To make matters worse, M$ and Turn 10 allowed Fanatec to market and sell expensive Forza Motorsport wheels that will not work with Forza 5. I am sorry but I have a problem with that. The Forza wheels only came out two years ago, yet they are already obsolete as to Forza game play.
In the end, M$ has the right to do what its doing, but many gamers will walk, most likely into the arms of the PC and/or PS3/PS4.
The wheel thing I can see from the consumers end is a monetary hurdle, from Microsoft's view I can see why they didn't continue with Fanatec, and seriously, the headset issue?
That's a huge leap forward in sound quality and consequently, consumer perceived quality. It IS a major step forward. I truly expect Forza 5 to sound amazing while improving gameplay through less drag on the system..
Both of the other companies have huge resources compared to Fanatec, better production capabilities, and as far as I can tell, better quality control procedures. Ammo's right, the last rollout was horrendous and Microsoft's done with them as a direct licensing source. If it were our organization here, it would have went the same way.
As far as down the road, the list of stuff, high dollar at that, that I can recite that's only good for 30 days, 90 days, a year, is quite long, and model changes after one year rendering past parts etc obsolete is huge.
All that said, I do understand that we are talking about your wallet, and it's your wallet to vote with.
I'm not sure the words Madcatz and QC go well together.
If either TM or MC come in as quality after 3 months I might jump. I'll wait to hear from some trusted sources here.
oh, and I have very little respect for Thomas at Fanatec in terms of business sense and communication. He's turned a hobby into a business, but pushed too far to fast. Promised, did not deliver, so made himself look like a liar at times.
I agree he has blotted his copybook with MS. But the products, minus teething problems, are sublime.
But he hasn't the capability to mass produce, nor the apparent capability or resources to do the necessary testing prior to launch of a product. Customer service afyer the fact is great and all, but it's reactive, not proactive. And if you really wanna get nasty about it, it's using the public's money to beta test. On top of that, Basher found two or three instances where a slight increase in cost/design would have greatly improved the products performance.
I agree. As I said, he's clueless in business.
Having said that, and being a CSR Elite user/beta tester, if he gets something to market sometime next year, and reviews of the TM or MC are anything less than stellar, then I'll be kicking down his door and throwing money at him to Beta test :)
ive got used to the fact I'm not going to be on board the first wave now. I'm quite happy to wait and see what the best options will be.
My feelings exactly. I've cancelled my preorder of the TM wheels and will wait and see.
a new wheel for me is probably at least a year away, so i think its gt6 and forza4 for the wheel