Theories on the Ending

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Wed, 03/21/2012 - 11:02
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That pretty much confirms everything I said earlier. They wanted an artsy open-to-interpretation ending and they're surprised they're getting backlash from it so their exec producer and team are scrambling to make DLC that actually provides a proper ending. They appreciate all the happy comments and praise but people telling them the ending sucked makes them cry.

 

Personally, I don't think Mass Effect is the type of game for an artsy ending. The WHOLE thing has been you're an asshole or a saint, it's been very upfront about what your decisions are doing and showing you the impact. You can't just suddenly decide in the last 5 minutes to throw all that out the window and give an ambiguous ending. That's the sort of thing reserved for linear RPGs where the player makes no choices.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:07
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Wow that is what it sounds like. Amazing how these PR types can say a whole lot without actually saying anything at all. 

 

So one of two things is going on: 

 

1. They really did screw up the ending and that was the way it was meant to be. 

 

2. They are upset that their sales are taking a dip and they are trying to prevent everyone from selling their game before the planned DLC comes out. 

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 00:03 (Reply to #33)
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What get me is this as a person that does not mind paying for DLC to add to a game

if they do fix the crappy ending  how much will it cost and if its not  free they can suck it

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 23:15 (Reply to #34)
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Barheet wrote:

Wow that is what it sounds like. Amazing how these PR types can say a whole lot without actually saying anything at all. 

 

So one of two things is going on: 

 

1. They really did screw up the ending and that was the way it was meant to be. 

 

 

 

It was a complete and utter rush job.  The ending (that was written in November) is just a symptom of the overall corner-cutting that Bioware displayed in a significant portion of Mass Effect 3.

Bioware has lost what it once was.  There were hints with Dragon Age II and confirmed with Mass Effect 3.  Despite saying that they listen to their customer-base and care what they think, the truth of it is that they have no idea what to do with the information they are getting from their customer-base.

In a few more years, they are going to be a cautionary tale for developers who get greedy and fail to stay true to the product they create and their customer-base.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 06:07
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The game was awesome! Everything up till those last coupler minuytes when you start talking to catalyst. I think they tried to get clever with the ending and they screwed up. I don't think this is indoctrination because there are no symptoms. The dreams with the little boy are to vivid and to far between to be indoctrination at work and then also the lack of symptoms again. We also know that this isn't ultra fast indoctrination cause if you read the codex it says that this will basically burn out a persons brain and all you got left is a hollow HUSK.

 

So where does that leave us? Well Bioware tried to get clever and screwed up. They wanted to make you feel like you alone had control over the future of the galaxy, that somehow you were given the choice a of god. Its a nice thought but it was a crap ending. I chose evolution, Hooray for me. It didn't make me feel better at all. And all that crap about order  and chaos, total hooey! It made absolutely no sense because as we see the galaxy was constantly full of chaos and crap like that. Foolish. that whole bogus story was the only thing thaty had me leaning with the indoctrination theory. But i think it was just them trying to be clever and screwing up.

 

Anywho we should definetly be disappointed in the ending, but the story, the game up until those last minutes was awesome. I still believe that despite that shit ending, I have had one of the best gaming experience of my life. It was a wild ride. As for the ending I made my own up, well kinda i borrowed a bit from that dude in a vid from an earlier post. We defeated the reapers, Garrus and i on the beach talking bout how badass we were, while watching Jack and liara bounce around in bikinis, popping childrens beach balls with their biotics.

 

Ya the ending,.... They thought they were clever and screwed up!

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 11:09 (Reply to #36)
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I'm not 100% sold on the indoctrination it could be but we are talking about a hero that is very  strong willed and mind.

yes granted  even heroes can be tricked

I picked the evolution as well because that was the best out come for my Shepherd

The game was great up until the last 10 mints I agree with Poltegle Bioware screwed up big time in ignoring all there canon in the ending   

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 06:15
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Sun, 03/25/2012 - 22:14
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I still can't get over the fact that Bioware allowed such a crappy ending.This is totally not like them.Did they decide to let a sixth grader write the last  fifteen minutes of the game?

With all due respect to Bioware,i think they might have been pushed by that money whoring,bullying,punk ass bitch EA.

I agree that 99% of the game was awesome.I just feel like i paid 60 dollars for an incomplete game.Bioware's surprised by the negative feedback from fans?I don't see how they could not see it coming.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 22:14
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I still can't get over the fact that Bioware allowed such a crappy ending.This is totally not like them.Did they decide to let a sixth grader write the last  fifteen minutes of the game?

With all due respect to Bioware,i think they might have been pushed by that money whoring,bullying,punk ass bitch EA.

I agree that 99% of the game was awesome.I just feel like i paid 60 dollars for an incomplete game.Bioware's surprised by the negative feedback from fans?I don't see how they could not see it coming.

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 07:26
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I just need more clarification on what the ending means for the universe. Otherwise I have no problem with the ending itself just want more clarification. I am guessing Joker took the Normandy through a relay and ended up on some unhabitable planet but where? And what does the choices mean for the universe? Control or Synthesis, how does that effect everyone? And does no relays means no more Mass Effect?

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 10:45
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http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/

Quote:
Imagine Frodo, dangling the One Ring, over the fiery chasm of Mt. Doom. He turns, and says, “The Ring is Mine!” and slips the One Ring onto his finger.

Suddenly he’s whisked into a universe contained inside the One Ring, an entire world trapped in the essence of the ring. He meets the Keeper of the Ring, an ethereal spirit who has dwelled within the ring since its creation and now Frodo must make the ultimate sacrifice. He has to become the ring, in order to destroy it.

How many people in the theater, watching the Lord of the Rings trilogy, would have stood up and said: “What the fuck is this shit?”

All of them, that’s how many, and do you know why? Because it introduces a new element that, by its very existence, shatters everything we, the audience, have come to understand about the world of Middle-Earth. If the Ring possesses a consciousness, why didn’t it destroy Sauron? Why is the Keeper of the Ring only now showing up when Frodo has put the Ring on before? Why does Frodo have to die to destroy it?

See throughout all three movies of Lord of the Rings we came to understand the universe, and how it worked; the rules and limits the characters were forced to work under. The Ring was a corrupting influence but could make the wearer invisible, it could only be destroyed in the fires of Mt. Doom, and Sauron created it. Suddenly introducing a new element, right at the end of the story, puts everything the audience knows into doubt including everything they enjoyed about the movie before the horrible ending came. That is exactly what happened with Mass Effect 3.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 10:44 (Reply to #42)
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Barheet wrote:

http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/

Quote:
Imagine Frodo, dangling the One Ring, over the fiery chasm of Mt. Doom. He turns, and says, “The Ring is Mine!” and slips the One Ring onto his finger.

Suddenly he’s whisked into a universe contained inside the One Ring, an entire world trapped in the essence of the ring. He meets the Keeper of the Ring, an ethereal spirit who has dwelled within the ring since its creation and now Frodo must make the ultimate sacrifice. He has to become the ring, in order to destroy it.

How many people in the theater, watching the Lord of the Rings trilogy, would have stood up and said: “What the fuck is this shit?”

All of them, that’s how many, and do you know why? Because it introduces a new element that, by its very existence, shatters everything we, the audience, have come to understand about the world of Middle-Earth. If the Ring possesses a consciousness, why didn’t it destroy Sauron? Why is the Keeper of the Ring only now showing up when Frodo has put the Ring on before? Why does Frodo have to die to destroy it?

See throughout all three movies of Lord of the Rings we came to understand the universe, and how it worked; the rules and limits the characters were forced to work under. The Ring was a corrupting influence but could make the wearer invisible, it could only be destroyed in the fires of Mt. Doom, and Sauron created it. Suddenly introducing a new element, right at the end of the story, puts everything the audience knows into doubt including everything they enjoyed about the movie before the horrible ending came. That is exactly what happened with Mass Effect 3.

Still doesn't answer the question: Why the giant eagles that were established in the Hobbit couldn't have just flown the ring to Mt. Doom, but were somehow able to rescue Sam and Frodo after the fact?

Sat, 04/07/2012 - 11:03 (Reply to #43)
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Prof_Rockwell wrote:

Barheet wrote:

http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/

Quote:
Imagine Frodo, dangling the One Ring, over the fiery chasm of Mt. Doom. He turns, and says, “The Ring is Mine!” and slips the One Ring onto his finger.

Suddenly he’s whisked into a universe contained inside the One Ring, an entire world trapped in the essence of the ring. He meets the Keeper of the Ring, an ethereal spirit who has dwelled within the ring since its creation and now Frodo must make the ultimate sacrifice. He has to become the ring, in order to destroy it.

How many people in the theater, watching the Lord of the Rings trilogy, would have stood up and said: “What the fuck is this shit?”

All of them, that’s how many, and do you know why? Because it introduces a new element that, by its very existence, shatters everything we, the audience, have come to understand about the world of Middle-Earth. If the Ring possesses a consciousness, why didn’t it destroy Sauron? Why is the Keeper of the Ring only now showing up when Frodo has put the Ring on before? Why does Frodo have to die to destroy it?

See throughout all three movies of Lord of the Rings we came to understand the universe, and how it worked; the rules and limits the characters were forced to work under. The Ring was a corrupting influence but could make the wearer invisible, it could only be destroyed in the fires of Mt. Doom, and Sauron created it. Suddenly introducing a new element, right at the end of the story, puts everything the audience knows into doubt including everything they enjoyed about the movie before the horrible ending came. That is exactly what happened with Mass Effect 3.

Still doesn't answer the question: Why the giant eagles that were established in the Hobbit couldn't have just flown the ring to Mt. Doom, but were somehow able to rescue Sam and Frodo after the fact?

 

The only hope was to sneak in. The Eye sees all, and the Eagles (I assume) could not have escaped detection. 

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 12:08
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I think that is a bit harsh on the ending. After all, I bet every single person wanted to know the why behind the reapers, which they answered. So to say that was unexpected, or doesn't fit within the "universe as we know it" is unrealistic. What is really different between finding answers from a Prothean VI compared to getting answers from the Catalyst (which seems to be some sort of virtual entity, maybe perhaps spiritual?). It wasn't a boy, that's just how it probably chose to show itself to Shepard.

I thought the biggest issue with the end was the breaking up of the crew and civilizations. It seems to be bad closure for something so Epic. I know what they were trying to go with though. They sort of telling us that even though the current cycle didn't end the same way (all advanced civilizations getting reaped), everthing sort of still got reset. This reset was different though as the advanced civilizations will stick around, just won't be in contact with each other.

Also, I don't think all the Mass Relays being destroyed/shut down would have necessarily destroyed the star systems they were in. They may have been deactivated in a less disasterous way as the Catalyst would know how to destroy them. In "The Arrival" DLC, we shut one down the wrong way, which caused bad things to happen. Also, I doubt they'd care about showing us endings where Earth was either left okay, or burned only to then have us assume Earth was destroyed anyway as Sol's Mass Relay was destroyed.

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 12:55
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I disagree. The problem is the introduction of the unfamiliar element...the catalyst. There is no foreshadowing of what it is, only speculation. Every other big event in the ME universe is foreshadowed in some way. This makes no sense, and Shepard goes along with it without hesitation, without question. This is contradictary to the character's nature. None of it fits with the series, the lore, or the story. Whether or not they told us the origin of the Reapers was beside the point. We already knew from Sovereign and Vigil that they are "unknowable" and outside our realm of understanding. So that's not a question that needed answered. All we needed to see were the Reapers destroyed and some sense of closure afterward. This bull honkey with synthesis and control are elements added at the last minute. They added things that weren't problems before. You work the entire game to unite all species, including the geth and the Quarians. If you play your cards right and have a high Reputation, you can save them both from destruction. It seems that all is right with the galaxy because the geth are just trying to get along. You see no foreshadowing of synthetics trying to destroy organics, especially since the Quarians started every fight in their long history. But then the Catalyst introduces another new concept or synthetics destroying organics. It's just too much change right at the very end. It leaves too much open, such as this: 

Quote:
Now throughout Mass Effect 3 there are plenty of mentions about the Catalyst, it’s the whole focus of the game, but never, never, was it foreshadowed as being some all-powerful Super AI. And even if Bioware had spent the entire game foreshadowing that fact, it still wouldn’t make up for the fact that the appearance of this character completely screws the rest of the preceding Mass Effect games by opening up plot holes so huge that they could be classified as quantum singularities. For instance, the Catalyst claims that the Reapers are his solution. So then why, in Mass Effect 1, did the Catalyst not simply call the Reapers himself? Why did Sovereign need to do it himself? In fact why was Sovereign even still in the Milky Way when the Catalyst could simply have monitored organic life himself and summoned the Reapers. Why did the Catalyst allow the Protheans to reprogram the Keepers?

However, none of that is my problem with the ending, even though it doesn't make sense and leaves plot holes. My problem is the absurdity of Joker leaving the battle and flying through multiple mass relays for unknown reasons. He couldn't have known what ending was coming and therefore the theory that he was trying to save EDI is ridiculous...not to mention he didn't have time to fly down to Earth, pick up squad members, then fly to the Mass Relay. Keep in mind the Sol relay is out at the edge of the solar system. Travel is not instantaneous and would have taken him hours to get there at FTL speed. 

 

Tue, 03/27/2012 - 21:25
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Tue, 03/27/2012 - 21:41 (Reply to #47)
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Barheet wrote:

Fans venting in graphic form: 

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10669892/1

 

I'm wondering how long that thread will stay open

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 00:02
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Well I just finished the game and found the ending intriguing... but then again, I can enjoy movies with somewhat arbitrary endings.  At the risk of getting skewered, I have a few thoughts (more based on the general gaming community sentiments vs what I've read here):

1.  Why is everyone so bothered that the ending wasn't simply "kill the Reapers and go be with our crew"?  Anyone over the age of 10 could write that ending because it is the simplest and most predictable.  My point is, with such talented and complex writing throughout the series, why expect such a simple ending... even if it is the one you "want".

2.  It seems like a bit of "band wagoning" is going on in the BW forums.  We know group think happens and my guess this is not different.  I was pretty happy with the ending (I refused to read about it before hand), but after reading a few posts, I started to change my opinion.... then I realized the forum was indoctrinating me into hating it.... LOL.

3. If BioWare really did intend this as the ending, I hope they don't sell out on their vision.  I feel even more strongly if they envisioned it this way from the start.  The detail of the trilogy sure feels like BW had it pretty well sketched all the way out from the start.  I'd be surprised if they just "hadn't thought of the ending yet" when they started the series.  Not impossible, just doesn't seem likely.  Hope they don't cave... straping on a "new ending" will be a total fuck up I'd guess.

 

 

One of the posts (here or on the BW forum) made a point about the Catalyst coming out of left field.  I guess I didn't see it any differently than Soverign or the Big Reaper robot.  The game talked about it the Catalyst all along and acknowledged that no one was sure what it was.

Final thought:  The ME series is about chosing good, bad, or balanced.  We've been given those choices from day 1.  How else would a series end but to give us three options, one to percieve as "right", one as "wrong" and one as "balanced"?  Again, to make the ending be "kill the Reapers and go stick Liara again" wouldn't be a fitting end point on a non-linear game.

The debate rages on :D

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 13:03
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I've been nicely informed that the original author of ME 1, 2 and the books did not write the final ending of ME3.  So I guess that renders a few of my points moot.  Though I stand by #1 and #2 and my final thought.

But to be balanced... I agree it could have been better, but would hope it wouldn't be as simple as the Reapers die and everyone lives happily ever after.

And just in case I offended anyone, here is my attempt at a BW forum post:

I HATE YOUR F---ING ENDING YOU F---ING F---KETY F--KS!  

 

LOL

 

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 17:02 (Reply to #50)
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well being a long time ME fan  I love 99% of the game myself

and I mite have pointed it out  in a early post  I dint not expect Shepard to live at all

let a lone any kind of happy ending

and yes I do agree with you that it not just Paragon or Renegade 

I just found the ending lacking  in closer just wanted more details on what those decisions effected the ppl around me

and the galaxy   

meant not just a different color light show

in spite of  the ending I'm on my second run  of ME3 and have no planes on returning my copy to my retailer of

burning it or file some lawsuit like some  done  or writhe a angry email  saying you had no right to do what you did to my game like a lot of the ME Fan boys have done

 

 

 

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 23:39 (Reply to #51)
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Sorry for the double post don't know how the hell that happened

 

 

 

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 13:06
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I also read that the ending was only written by a couple of people soley and wasn't bounced around with the rest of the writing crew. Every other mission in the game apparently gets bounced around by the whole team, but the ending wasn't.

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 13:21
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Hey, if you're happy with the ending, glad you enjoyed it man! I enjoyed 99% of the game. That Tuchanka mission with the Thresher Maw is one of the best gaming sequences I've ever seen. Some great stuff in the game. 

Wed, 03/28/2012 - 18:20
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WHAT ABOUT SHEPHARD'S RETIREMENT HOME!?!!?!?!!

Fri, 03/30/2012 - 01:31
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Fri, 03/30/2012 - 08:52
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Heh. That sums it up.

Fri, 03/30/2012 - 13:28
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Sat, 04/07/2012 - 11:01 (Reply to #58)
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Barheet wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M0Cf864P7E&feature=related

 

I finished the story last night and I am stunned how short that ending was. I actually turned it off last night confused if I had something wrong and got a really bad ending. I am the kind of person that will never view spoilers before a game comes out or walkthroughs after release because I want to see and experience everything for the first time completely virginal. The video you linked here explains nearly every one of my biggest disappointments. 

This game is the culmination of a 5 year journey with Mass Effect for me. Playing the good guy in the games, working hard to make the right choices, repairing racial divides, building relationships...all destroyed in a 3 minute cutscene. This absolutely felt like the story writers reached the end and were not sure what to do to tie up all the loose ends. Either that, or whoever was responsible, hadn't followed along with the story for the first chapters. Like a novelist wrote a trilogy and his wife, who only knew the story anecdotally from stories he tells her over morning coffee, wrote the ending for it. 

I was ready for an absolutely epic ending. I didn't want to end up with Garrus on the beach...but after the shooting contest in the Citadel (where I let him win) I expected he would be a friend I would say goodbye to for example. I fully expected to say goodbye to some squad mates in the final battle but also have some bittersweet bits where the final battle was made worth it....the kind of fallen heroes type scenario. I worked to gather every resource but never even got to see what impacts those resources added.  It was just a number algorithm that had almost no impact in the game at all.

Lastly, after reviewing some other endings today and this YouTube, I am exceptionally disappointed that all the endings were exactly the same. The questions left unanswered and plot holes now opened are not how you end thingg for what is considered one of the best video game epics of all time.  No way in hell that I can see that the ending was planned this way. It felt completely tacked on to me, and the indoctrination route may have been what they were aiming for, but falls way short of hitting the mark. After how much item I spent on this series, the ending of this one is an enormous letdown. 

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 12:04
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Must resist getting involved in that ME3/LoTR analagy.

Wed, 04/04/2012 - 12:27
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Yeah it's tough to compare the two because the LOTR was a book long before it was a movie. It's been so long since I've read the book that now I don't remember, but I do think it was explained in the book. 

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