Multiplayer modes explained

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#1 Thu, 08/28/2014 - 09:20
KamakazeTaco's picture
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Multiplayer modes explained

http://www.ign.com/videos/2014/08/27/destiny-what-to-expect-after-launch

He also talks about the Vault of Glass. Destiny's only raid. When he says "If one of the players jumps out and we were to allow you to proceed..." it sounds like if someone lags out or has a kid problem it screws the group. If the raids are supposed to be 4+ hours that should be lots of fun. He also says "On launch we go for one, the Vault of Glass." which sounds like that will be the only raid available. Hopefully the DLC comes soon. And hopefully the jumping/platforming shown in the video isn't what makes the raids so difficult.

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Thu, 08/28/2014 - 10:24
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At least Raids can be completed in phases. How long a phase will last before expiring, I don't know. How many of the original Raid team have to muster to proceed to subsequent phases, I don't know. Why hasn't Bungie outright told us this stuff. It's not like showing videos, pictures and story.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 12:23
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"5 players will not succeed"'.  Maybe you will not get booted from Vault of glass if one player leaves.  Maybe you just have to find a replacement?  I agree that we should have more info on this by now.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 12:29
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We don't have more info because Bungie has outright stated, many times over, they want us to discover and figure stuff out on our own.

I understand where they are coming from, but a little bit of basic information would be appreciated.

 

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 13:30 (Reply to #4)
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DarthTabasco wrote:

I understand where they are coming from, but a little bit of basic information would be appreciated.

 

What I want 'is' basic information.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 13:36 (Reply to #5)
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DarthTabasco wrote:

We don't have more info because Bungie has outright stated, many times over, they want us to discover and figure stuff out on our own.

I understand where they are coming from, but a little bit of basic information would be appreciated.

 

Fine. Let me figure out how to kill a certain boss or discover the easter eggs and stuff like that on my own, I like that. Simple necessary information like "Can 5 people finish a raid?" should be something they tell us. The fact that they won't leads me to believe we won't like the answer so they'd rather not give it. Because if it's good news why wouldn't they tell us and make people more excited about it?

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 14:29
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I can't forget how Bungie wouldn't answer all questions regarding Halo 3 Clans until the very last moment. I was very mad at them for that too.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 15:21
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I'm thinking one very good reason they aren't telling us is perhaps they don't know either how things will work 100%. I'm hoping this isn't the case, but with so many developers shipping games and then fixing them after release, it's become a trend we have to take into account.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 15:35 (Reply to #8)
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DarthTabasco wrote:

I'm thinking one very good reason they aren't telling us is perhaps they don't know either how things will work 100%. I'm hoping this isn't the case, but with so many developers shipping games and then fixing them after release, it's become a trend we have to take into account.

I understand where you are coming from but in this case, telling us how Raids operate with friends is not an unknown, nor will it likely need a fix in the near term.

Perhaps a few months in, the data may point to a better solution but Bungie already knows how it works and have been holding back info which would help us plan for our new adventures starting in just over a week.

They're hiding details that might get the communities pissed off, I think.

I also don't care a whole lot about this. There will be one Raid at launch and we will need the experience and friends to build towards it. Should be a hugely fun adventure getting to that point.

I think the cup is more than half full with Destiny.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 15:58
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I just hope the raid difficulty isn't all exaggerated. If it really is complex and difficult and only 10% of players or whatever can complete it then that's something I could be excited for. It's something to work towards. If, on the other hand and as I suspect, it's only difficult because the boss has 5 billion health and there's some cheesy platforming puzzle that might stump someone til it's posted on the internet then that might get pretty dull.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 18:38
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KamakazeTaco wrote:

http://www.ign.com/videos/2014/08/27/destiny-what-to-expect-after-launch

He also talks about the Vault of Glass. Destiny's only raid. When he says "If one of the players jumps out and we were to allow you to proceed..." it sounds like if someone lags out or has a kid problem it screws the group. If the raids are supposed to be 4+ hours that should be lots of fun. He also says "On launch we go for one, the Vault of Glass." which sounds like that will be the only raid available. Hopefully the DLC comes soon. And hopefully the jumping/platforming shown in the video isn't what makes the raids so difficult.

Hrm, couple of thoughts I have here.

First off, this is why I was nonplussed about the lack of matchmaking. I get that people don't want to have random idiots join and troll groups but if it turns out that losing a person can cause a group to [i]completely implode[/i], I'd rather have the option of having some random person join and forge on than ending on a low note just because someone had to go or someone's internet crapped out. I hope like hell we can replace people BUT that also makes me question other basic mmo-esque functions like: Will there be lockout timers? Will there be loot limits? Will bringing someone into an in progress raid screw them out of earlier bosses if such lockouts exist? So on and so on.

As for raids being really long (I've read some forums claiming clans spending 16+ hours on raid content in beta)... I don't know many people who can spend a solid 4+ hour block of time (that's half a work shift, mind) just to raid. I had to give up being a core raider in Warcraft in late Burning Crusade because I couldn't put forward 4+ hours a night, three nights a week just to "raid". Four hour raids will appeal to a very, very small group of people. Look at Wildstar: They marketed that they were creating an end game specifically for the MMO player who missed the large scale, hard, lengthy raids. I watched a whole lot of people jump over and play it for 3-4 months... then as soon as they got to end game, they bailed and ended up back at their old MMO's. I have a feeling these will end up being tweaked to get more people interested later on.

Speaking of Wildstar, watching the linked video, I get a very Wildstar raid feeling, which is to say the "difficulty" is mostly going to be the platformer elements.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 07:37
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Perhaps I'm missing something, but Raids have generally been reserved as end game activities to encourage people to keep playing and finding epic loot. I say this because I'm under the impression Raids won't even be available to try until you are level 20 and even then there are phases to beat.

If this is the case, then that will be another limiting factor as you'll need to find other friends that are also level 20. This may be an incorrect assumption, but if it holds true then it will be another barrier keeping people from participating. 

However, I actually would prefer that these be for Level 20+ players - it's a reward for having played the game and may encourage others to keep playing (or just as easily cause them to move on...lol).

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 15:49
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your assumption, is my assumption Darth. End game stuff and hard to do.....not for all players.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 12:56 (Reply to #13)
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DedJeloC wrote:

your assumption, is my assumption Darth. End game stuff and hard to do.....not for all players.

That might fly in a proper MMO, but this is an FPS. MMOs have always had very difficult endgame content just for a few players and people accept that. FPS generally pander to the more casual noob. I hope with all my hope that the raid content is properly difficult and only a few dedicated players will be able to handle it, actually make the loot you get there something you earn. But I fully expect everyone and their blind grandmother to be able to beat it within the first week.

Sat, 08/30/2014 - 20:47
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  • They have made a few announcements concerning raids.

 

Weekly Raid Resets are every Tuesday. So you could potentially start wednesday, come back on sunday, and have it save your place. Handy feature!

Loot lockouts. You can only clear a raid once a week. If you clear it, and join someone else's raid, then kill the boss again, you would not get loot. But you could still participate.

They tuned down the raid after that group of people went in after 16 hours and couldn't complete it. He didn't say what they did or to what degree, but that experience caused them to tune it. My guess is nerf, or clear out some unnecessary time wasting trash. Hard to tell.

EDIT: Wow, I screwed up bullet points. I used to think I was good at this internet stuff.

Tue, 09/02/2014 - 15:28 (Reply to #15)
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RadBrad31 wrote:

 

They tuned down the raid after that group of people went in after 16 hours and couldn't complete it. He didn't say what they did or to what degree, but that experience caused them to tune it. My guess is nerf, or clear out some unnecessary time wasting trash. Hard to tell.

 

Q:  What about the rumor that some “clan” spent 16+ hours playing the Raid and didn't beat it, what's the deal with that? 

 

Luke:  There's a whole bunch of missing information in that sentence. So let's just talk about that particular weekend. 

 

In March 2014, we brought an organized clan of folks in to playtest the Raid. This would be one of the only times the Vault of Glass would be played by external participants.  

 

These folks are shooter players, not -- for the most part -- Raiders from other games. They are a group of people used to working together primarily in competitive multiplayer games, and hadn't been exposed to an experience like this before. 

 

We arranged the 24 visitors into four teams. 

 

We put them through a pretty lengthy UR study, filmed them, datamined their adventures, and watched them play it live. Later, the Raid team spent a bunch of time watching player perspective films we captured during the day.

 

We did not offer them help, tips or tricks during their time here. We didn't clarify mechanics for them. We watched, listened and learned. 

 

In two days of playing - where they broke for meals and had some ramp up time with the game on day 1, here's what happened:

 

Two groups made it to the final encounter.  Neither group defeated it.

 

One group made it to the final encounter, but had to be skipped through an earlier encounter. 

 

One group washed out and elected to go back to playing Strikes, Missions and Patrols. 

 

With the goal of as many players beating the Normal Raid as were willing to organize, cooperate and communicate, we made a bunch of tuning changes through the rest of the Spring. 

Tue, 09/02/2014 - 15:21
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I hope the end game stuff isn't to bad (time wise.) That was the main reason I quit WoW before the first DLC came out. I got sick of spending hours to get a group together and it failing, or some ass stealing my drop, or it flat out not dropping.

Tue, 09/02/2014 - 15:53
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As a 10 year mmo player and endgame nut job, I've mostly asked Bungie these questions when I've had the chance. I can say from what I've heard that they will be following the normal raid structure most people are used to in WoW.  Raid lockouts, player drop outs, loot tables etc should all be the same.  

In terms of difficulty the idea is VERY subjective.  Using Wildstar as an example (or WoW even) there are serveral people that go through the content just fine with very little effort.  The time it takes to complete a raid is all relative.  The issue is that regular folk tend to think they're amazing players and therefor should be able to complete a raid in a short period of time.  When they can't they complain that the content is too grindy or long.  

The fact is that better players will complete the raids faster.  There is a reason WoW ended up going with 3 difficuties (and now 4) for their raids.  Everyone wants to feel like they can complete content regardless of skill level.  Without this level changing the sweet spot for Bungie is going to be very hard to hit.  Great players will finish content way to fast and complain about how easy it is while shitty players will never make it past the first encounter.  

Tue, 09/02/2014 - 23:08
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And I would be happy with that setup. To farm the raid, to help people complete it, and explore the games modes out fully (raids are just a small part of the game right now after all), I think that from the sounds of it, December might just be a sweet spot for that DLC to drop after all.

Thanks for the insight!

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