Will there be a way to disable auto-pickup for Flag/Oddball? -CyReN CE
At launch and in the launch playlists, we will be deploying CTF as-is. Although it’s possible in the future that we will give players more specific control and choices, this is something we feel pretty strongly about – and is in some ways a new mode, rather than simply an evolution of an existing game type. We understand the reaction this may cause, but there’s method in our madness and we ask your indulgence in the short term.
Strangely, Custom Game options to change flag pick up and dropping was not mentioned. I would say, let's wait and see but I figure it is safe to have the opinion it is not a custom CTF setting, yet.
I mentioned in another topic, I think 343i has their vision of CTF and they know it won't be realized if they are not hard nosed about it. Allowing people to skip CTF in MM and thumb their noses at it by saying they'll only play it Customs, could be considered poor planning. I won't condemn them for it, for now.
I commend them for seeming to stick to their guns about the CTF changes and custom options. In all honesty, I don't find the changes that big a deal and look forward to trying the new CTF.
I find it odd so many people are complaining about changes to Objective games - especially considering Team Objective has always struggled with it's population. Where are all these people that "love objective"? They certainly aren't in the playlist.
The only thing that causes concern for me is the damage increase and unlimited ammo for the Flagnum. If the Flagnum is too poweful, we'll see a new version of Objective holding.
I find it odd so many people are complaining about changes to Objective games - especially considering Team Objective has always struggled with it's population. Where are all these people that "love objective"? They certainly aren't in the playlist.
Auto pick-up I have no issues with whatsoever. That's the way it was in Halo 1 with the oddball and flag, if they want to take it back that way I am perfectly fine with it. What I have an issue with is not being able to drop the flag. Right now I just don't see the benefits outweighing the disadvantages.
...What I have an issue with is not being able to drop the flag. Right now I just don't see the benefits outweighing the disadvantages.
The flag carrier has always been at a disadvantage. Yeah, we can't drop the flag, but at least movement speed is not slowed to a crawl and we can wield the Flagnum for defense.
I've always been a flag runner, so usually when I went for a grab, I was not intending to drop the flag. I will miss juggling, but these changes do sound very intriguing and I'm excited to give it a shot.
I mean, what does 343 have to lose trying something new with CTF and Oddball? I mean, they are popular on the MLG circuit, but in regular matchmaking the playlist is dead. Mixing it up could get more people interested, but I figure Objective will still lag far behind all the other lists so why not try something new?
I've always been a flag runner, so usually when I went for a grab, I was not intending to drop the flag.
What separated Halo from every other game was this: easy to learn, hard to master. All those subtle little details that we all learned to master over hours and hours of play were what made the game great.
One of the most important skills in objective gametypes was the skill of learning when to drop the objective and fight, and when to pick it up and run. This was one of the many little things in Halo that separated the men from the boys. So yeah, when you picked up the objective you damned well expected to have to drop it at some point and fight.
In one fell swoop they just removed that skill from the game altogether. Huge mistake IMO. There are other better ways of solving the problems that they want to solve.
I've always been a flag runner, so usually when I went for a grab, I was not intending to drop the flag.
What separated Halo from every other game was this: easy to learn, hard to master. All those subtle little details that we all learned to master over hours and hours of play were what made the game great.
One of the most important skills in objective gametypes was the skill of learning when to drop the objective and fight, and when to pick it up and run. This was one of the many little things in Halo that separated the men from the boys. So yeah, when you picked up the objective you damned well expected to have to drop it at some point and fight.
In one fell swoop they just removed that skill from the game altogether. Huge mistake IMO. There are other better ways of solving the problems that they want to solve.
I guess the people I played with most, we had the notion of not going for a flag grab until we had an appropriate set-up to protect the flag runner. Grab the flag and get to the base ASAP.
Maybe I'm just bad (scratch that, I know I'm bad), but that is when the flag runner relied on teammates more to protect you since you are basically defenseless. The only defense you had was to drop the flag, slow down the game and try to fight. I'm not sure it's a "skill" to decide to either stop and fight or advance the flag closer, it's more of a decision based on one's skill, but I certainly get your point.
Now if you want to talk about flag juggling, that is decidedly a skill. Good flag juggling can be the difference in a game and a skill I will certainly miss in Halo 4.
These new settings allow for more defense for the flag carrier. However, it also means there is another level of thought that should go into if a flag should be picked up. To me, these new settings will take even more coordination.
I've always been a flag runner, so usually when I went for a grab, I was not intending to drop the flag.
What separated Halo from every other game was this: easy to learn, hard to master. All those subtle little details that we all learned to master over hours and hours of play were what made the game great.
One of the most important skills in objective gametypes was the skill of learning when to drop the objective and fight, and when to pick it up and run. This was one of the many little things in Halo that separated the men from the boys. So yeah, when you picked up the objective you damned well expected to have to drop it at some point and fight.
In one fell swoop they just removed that skill from the game altogether. Huge mistake IMO. There are other better ways of solving the problems that they want to solve.
It does change things, for sure. I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt until we try it for ourselves, although I do share the first initial reaction with you.
...What I have an issue with is not being able to drop the flag. Right now I just don't see the benefits outweighing the disadvantages.
The flag carrier has always been at a disadvantage. Yeah, we can't drop the flag, but at least movement speed is not slowed to a crawl and we can wield the Flagnum for defense.
[edit]
I mean, they are popular on the MLG circuit, but in regular matchmaking the playlist is dead. Mixing it up could get more people interested, but I figure Objective will still lag far behind all the other lists so why not try something new?
You can alter and tweak the game so precisely right now though. I think even in Halo 2 you could mess with the flag carrier speed, damage, etc, so it's been around for a while. I have my MLG/comp type bias. Take away the move speed handicap and also the one hit flag kills. I thnk that strikes a pretty good balance. If the reason objective did so poor was because the flag carrier was left defenseless they could have changed it. Increase your speed, give them 110% shields, etc. They have had a year to mess with the gametypes in Objective MM. Has much changed? I'm not sure.
Same thing with the waypoint over the flag carriers head. I believe there are three options you can change currently; always on, only when dropped, never on. Each variant changes the way you play CTF. I have no idea what they do currently.
I guess what I'm most worried about is not having the option to turn it off in custom games. The fact that right now they won't say for certain that it's in there or not is what gets me. If they want to experiment in MM I say go for it. Just leave us the option.
Just as an aside I tend to forget sometimes that 343i is not Bungie. I think Frankie and my head still goes to WWU and Bungie. I applaud them trying to put their on spin/stamp/flavour (with a 'u') on the game.
...I guess what I'm most worried about is not having the option to turn it off in custom games. The fact that right now they won't say for certain that it's in there or not is what gets me. If they want to experiment in MM I say go for it. Just leave us the option...
I'm sure the option to drop will be added IF people really bitch about the new settings - AFTER the game has been out for a while.
As others have mentioned, not including this option at launch (assuming it's not included), basically forces people to give it an honest go with the new settings. You know, instead of playing a couple of games, not liking it, dismissing the gametype and playing YOUR version in a custom gametype.
Yes, it will be different. I just hope the Halo community will have the ability to give it an honest try before crying out for "classic" settings.
I mean, hopefully 343 has learned from the mess that is Reach's various settings and playlists. I hope they have learned to stick by their decisions and say these are the settings - take it or leave it.
It seems like they're dumbing down the objective games as much as possible so that even complete morons can play them. I'm fine with that. It may end up making objective games more popular which would be a good thing IMHO. My favorite change is that your flag does not need to be at home to score. It was annoying when you carried the enemy flag all the way back to your base only to find that you couldn't score it because your own team's flag was not there. I've never really been a fan of traditional CTF, but maybe I'll like this new version better. It's clear they're trying hard to make CTF a more popular gametype. According to this week's Halo Bulletin, they're going to have a playlist entirely devoted to 2-flag CTF at launch -
well they are not preventing you from being able to fight. They are just taking the aspect of having to drop the flag and THEN start fighting. IMO this increases the need for even more "team" aspect of objective. The necessity for team call outs and team shooting is now increased even more. since the flag carrier is now limited to short to medium short fights, the team will have to moved, cover and team shoot even more now.
Just a thought.
I mean I could end up hating it with the force of a thousand suns later.
I dont think its a bad change at all, AND I dont think they should change it OR give you the option to change it in custom games. Its what 343 thinks is good. If they gave you the option to change it in customs then there would ALWAYS be people complaining about it in MM, if they leave it at no dropping with no other option then people will eventually get used to it and forget about it. Too many options being available is sometimes a bad thing.
I dont think its a bad change at all, AND I dont think they should change it OR give you the option to change it in custom games. Its what 343 thinks is good. If they gave you the option to change it in customs then there would ALWAYS be people complaining about it in MM, if they leave it at no dropping with no other option then people will eventually get used to it and forget about it. Too many options being available is sometimes a bad thing.
I couldn't agree with you more. Developers need to make their fans happy, but since they are the ones actually making the game, they have every right to do whatever they want. I'm honestly really interested to see for myself how this affects game play. I hope that they succeed in making ctf a more popular game type. Some of the most fun I've ever had gaming was playing ctf in Halo 2. That was awesome, imo.
I can see flag pick up a benefit when its a laggy game or when there is a bunch of weapons laying around the objective. I always hate trying to pick up the bomb around the plant area only to pick up weapons and then die.
Regarding no dropping of Flag.
Strangely, Custom Game options to change flag pick up and dropping was not mentioned. I would say, let's wait and see but I figure it is safe to have the opinion it is not a custom CTF setting, yet.
I mentioned in another topic, I think 343i has their vision of CTF and they know it won't be realized if they are not hard nosed about it. Allowing people to skip CTF in MM and thumb their noses at it by saying they'll only play it Customs, could be considered poor planning. I won't condemn them for it, for now.
I commend them for seeming to stick to their guns about the CTF changes and custom options. In all honesty, I don't find the changes that big a deal and look forward to trying the new CTF.
I find it odd so many people are complaining about changes to Objective games - especially considering Team Objective has always struggled with it's population. Where are all these people that "love objective"? They certainly aren't in the playlist.
The only thing that causes concern for me is the damage increase and unlimited ammo for the Flagnum. If the Flagnum is too poweful, we'll see a new version of Objective holding.
Precisely! This playlist has always suffered.
Auto pick-up I have no issues with whatsoever. That's the way it was in Halo 1 with the oddball and flag, if they want to take it back that way I am perfectly fine with it. What I have an issue with is not being able to drop the flag. Right now I just don't see the benefits outweighing the disadvantages.
The flag carrier has always been at a disadvantage. Yeah, we can't drop the flag, but at least movement speed is not slowed to a crawl and we can wield the Flagnum for defense.
I've always been a flag runner, so usually when I went for a grab, I was not intending to drop the flag. I will miss juggling, but these changes do sound very intriguing and I'm excited to give it a shot.
I mean, what does 343 have to lose trying something new with CTF and Oddball? I mean, they are popular on the MLG circuit, but in regular matchmaking the playlist is dead. Mixing it up could get more people interested, but I figure Objective will still lag far behind all the other lists so why not try something new?
What separated Halo from every other game was this: easy to learn, hard to master. All those subtle little details that we all learned to master over hours and hours of play were what made the game great.
One of the most important skills in objective gametypes was the skill of learning when to drop the objective and fight, and when to pick it up and run. This was one of the many little things in Halo that separated the men from the boys. So yeah, when you picked up the objective you damned well expected to have to drop it at some point and fight.
In one fell swoop they just removed that skill from the game altogether. Huge mistake IMO. There are other better ways of solving the problems that they want to solve.
I guess the people I played with most, we had the notion of not going for a flag grab until we had an appropriate set-up to protect the flag runner. Grab the flag and get to the base ASAP.
Maybe I'm just bad (scratch that, I know I'm bad), but that is when the flag runner relied on teammates more to protect you since you are basically defenseless. The only defense you had was to drop the flag, slow down the game and try to fight. I'm not sure it's a "skill" to decide to either stop and fight or advance the flag closer, it's more of a decision based on one's skill, but I certainly get your point.
Now if you want to talk about flag juggling, that is decidedly a skill. Good flag juggling can be the difference in a game and a skill I will certainly miss in Halo 4.
These new settings allow for more defense for the flag carrier. However, it also means there is another level of thought that should go into if a flag should be picked up. To me, these new settings will take even more coordination.
OR
It will just lead to more chaos...lol
It does change things, for sure. I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt until we try it for ourselves, although I do share the first initial reaction with you.
You can alter and tweak the game so precisely right now though. I think even in Halo 2 you could mess with the flag carrier speed, damage, etc, so it's been around for a while. I have my MLG/comp type bias. Take away the move speed handicap and also the one hit flag kills. I thnk that strikes a pretty good balance. If the reason objective did so poor was because the flag carrier was left defenseless they could have changed it. Increase your speed, give them 110% shields, etc. They have had a year to mess with the gametypes in Objective MM. Has much changed? I'm not sure.
Same thing with the waypoint over the flag carriers head. I believe there are three options you can change currently; always on, only when dropped, never on. Each variant changes the way you play CTF. I have no idea what they do currently.
I guess what I'm most worried about is not having the option to turn it off in custom games. The fact that right now they won't say for certain that it's in there or not is what gets me. If they want to experiment in MM I say go for it. Just leave us the option.
Just as an aside I tend to forget sometimes that 343i is not Bungie. I think Frankie and my head still goes to WWU and Bungie. I applaud them trying to put their on spin/stamp/flavour (with a 'u') on the game.
I'm sure the option to drop will be added IF people really bitch about the new settings - AFTER the game has been out for a while.
As others have mentioned, not including this option at launch (assuming it's not included), basically forces people to give it an honest go with the new settings. You know, instead of playing a couple of games, not liking it, dismissing the gametype and playing YOUR version in a custom gametype.
Yes, it will be different. I just hope the Halo community will have the ability to give it an honest try before crying out for "classic" settings.
I mean, hopefully 343 has learned from the mess that is Reach's various settings and playlists. I hope they have learned to stick by their decisions and say these are the settings - take it or leave it.
It seems like they're dumbing down the objective games as much as possible so that even complete morons can play them. I'm fine with that. It may end up making objective games more popular which would be a good thing IMHO. My favorite change is that your flag does not need to be at home to score. It was annoying when you carried the enemy flag all the way back to your base only to find that you couldn't score it because your own team's flag was not there. I've never really been a fan of traditional CTF, but maybe I'll like this new version better. It's clear they're trying hard to make CTF a more popular gametype. According to this week's Halo Bulletin, they're going to have a playlist entirely devoted to 2-flag CTF at launch -
2 Flag CTF Only
5v5
5 non-forged maps, tuned for CTF
well they are not preventing you from being able to fight. They are just taking the aspect of having to drop the flag and THEN start fighting. IMO this increases the need for even more "team" aspect of objective. The necessity for team call outs and team shooting is now increased even more. since the flag carrier is now limited to short to medium short fights, the team will have to moved, cover and team shoot even more now.
Just a thought.
I mean I could end up hating it with the force of a thousand suns later.
I dont think its a bad change at all, AND I dont think they should change it OR give you the option to change it in custom games. Its what 343 thinks is good. If they gave you the option to change it in customs then there would ALWAYS be people complaining about it in MM, if they leave it at no dropping with no other option then people will eventually get used to it and forget about it. Too many options being available is sometimes a bad thing.
I couldn't agree with you more. Developers need to make their fans happy, but since they are the ones actually making the game, they have every right to do whatever they want. I'm honestly really interested to see for myself how this affects game play. I hope that they succeed in making ctf a more popular game type. Some of the most fun I've ever had gaming was playing ctf in Halo 2. That was awesome, imo.
This is the same dev lead who thought the SMG start in H2 was good. I'm waiting with baited breath.
I can see flag pick up a benefit when its a laggy game or when there is a bunch of weapons laying around the objective. I always hate trying to pick up the bomb around the plant area only to pick up weapons and then die.