You say that first paragraph like MLG hasn't been actively involved with tinkering with Halo 4 for a while now. You, of all people, know better. You say "'nope' every time", yet that's the first act of balancing the game out and, dare I say, improving it.
I recognize Pro players (don't know/remember about MLG company) have been very involved so far. What I don't remember is any of them saying they felt a need for an increased base player speed. That's all I meant there. Maybe they did and I didn't see/read/hear it.
Unless you've played the default game, how can a person say increased base speed would be an improvement? Maybe I6_Hitman has a clue about it?
You're tiring me out again Dixon and I haven't even had a chance to play in a game with you yet.
You say that first paragraph like MLG hasn't been actively involved with tinkering with Halo 4 for a while now. You, of all people, know better. You say "'nope' every time", yet that's the first act of balancing the game out and, dare I say, improving it.
I recognize Pro players (don't know/remember about MLG company) have been very involved so far. What I don't remember is any of them saying they felt a need for an increased base player speed. That's all I meant there. Maybe they did and I didn't see/read/hear it.
Unless you've played the default game, how can a person say increased base speed would be an improvement? Maybe I6_Hitman has a clue about it?
You're tiring me out again Dixon and I haven't even had a chance to play in a game with you yet.
Right. With involvement comes, you know, playing the product and testing it out. I wouldn't expect anyone to say that they felt the base player speed should be increased slightly. I'm actually a little shocked with that, and thought things were pretty fast anyways, but I'm fine with it. In the end, it comes down to purifying the experience. The question to ask, that we can't have answered, is if we'd be better off just increasing the base player speed and not having Sprint as a mandatory Armor Ability. I'm sure it was brought up and discussed, probably at some length, but I'd be curious to hear why.
Isn't it like 10% faster movement speed? I mean, is that really what the issue is here?
"I don't like this playlist, it's too competitive. It let's everyone take 11 steps in the time it'd normally take a spartan to take 10 steps in Infinity Slayer. I quit."
I mean, really?
As for the 1-50 stuff, I've never felt it added anything to the game. It really has no meaning to me when I've come across in Halo 3 so many people who boosted/changed language/were "letting my sister play"/just weren't good versus my team yet they clearly had a higher number on the scale.
What does it add? A way to compare e-peen? It doesn't add a way to match people - that's already there. Besides, I'd hope that we are matched with others on more than just one "skill number". I hope there's more factors than that. It does add frustration. Players go down in rank, they get discouraged. I've had friends on Xbox Live that stopped playing Halo 3 because they felt they couldn't progress any further. They stopped enjoying the game because no matter how much they played, their stupid number of rank wouldn't change.
You get matched with people around your skill level, but without a visible number that discourages people from playing while it would encourage people to cheat and boost. Yeah, that sounds so terrible?
Also the Slayer Pro playlist is a godsend for people who don't play too much, or get the game after release. It's more balanced in terms of rank not factoring in to what abilities and weapons you can bring to the battle.
Isn't it like 10% faster movement speed? I mean, is that really what the issue is here?
"I don't like this playlist, it's too competitive. It let's everyone take 11 steps in the time it'd normally take a spartan to take 10 steps in Infinity Slayer. I quit."
I mean, really?
As for the 1-50 stuff, I've never felt it added anything to the game. It really has no meaning to me when I've come across in Halo 3 so many people who boosted/changed language/were "letting my sister play"/just weren't good versus my team yet they clearly had a higher number on the scale.
What does it add? A way to compare e-peen? It doesn't add a way to match people - that's already there. Besides, I'd hope that we are matched with others on more than just one "skill number". I hope there's more factors than that. It does add frustration. Players go down in rank, they get discouraged. I've had friends on Xbox Live that stopped playing Halo 3 because they felt they couldn't progress any further. They stopped enjoying the game because no matter how much they played, their stupid number of rank wouldn't change.
You get matched with people around your skill level, but without a visible number that discourages people from playing while it would encourage people to cheat and boost. Yeah, that sounds so terrible?
Also the Slayer Pro playlist is a godsend for people who don't play too much, or get the game after release. It's more balanced in terms of rank not factoring in to what abilities and weapons you can bring to the battle.
Yet, that's what we had with Reach, and comparatively few folks play it.
The competitive peeps don't want to be an afterthought, much like Arena in reach has been.
Oh yeah, these people don't like the new sandbox; we'll just throw in a single playlist to try to appease them.
I'm SICK of being an afterthought. The game is better without all the bullshit and garbage. Reach is better in slayer pro with only sprint. Jetpack, light shield, and all that other stupid BS they should can and just quit catering to all the noobs.
I'm waiting, and crossing my fingers. But I think they've really shot themselves in the foot by not having anything "ranked".
The competitive peeps don't want to be an afterthought, much like Arena in reach has been.
Oh yeah, these people don't like the new sandbox; we'll just throw in a single playlist to try to appease them.
I'm SICK of being an afterthought. The game is better without all the bullshit and garbage. Reach is better in slayer pro with only sprint. Jetpack, light shield, and all that other stupid BS they should can and just quit catering to all the noobs.
I'm waiting, and crossing my fingers. But I think they've really shot themselves in the foot by not having anything "ranked".
You have to know that it is the more casual and campaign players that make these games work. They have a lot of catering power.
Careful with the "ranked" terminology. I think you mean "visible skill level"? All playlists use the results of True Skill and other influencers to setup matches. In the end, that's all most people want out of skill settings, just to be fairly matched.
The competitive peeps don't want to be an afterthought, much like Arena in reach has been.
Oh yeah, these people don't like the new sandbox; we'll just throw in a single playlist to try to appease them.
I'm SICK of being an afterthought. The game is better without all the bullshit and garbage. Reach is better in slayer pro with only sprint. Jetpack, light shield, and all that other stupid BS they should can and just quit catering to all the noobs.
I'm waiting, and crossing my fingers. But I think they've really shot themselves in the foot by not having anything "ranked".
You have to know that it is the more casual and campaign players that make these games work. They have a lot of catering power.
Careful with the "ranked" terminology. I think you mean "visible skill level"? All playlists use the results of True Skill and other influencers to setup matches. In the end, that's all most people want out of skill settings, just to be fairly matched.
No. I mean ranked slayer, objective, double team, snipers, mlg, and lone wolves.
THAT is what kept halo 3 alive, and that is what keeps reach's population down.
EXP rank is not what I am refering to. I H3, your rank was directly proportional to your skill level. In reach, you never have to reach "onyx" to reach inheritor, which is sad.
A single 50 in Halo 3 was not difficult to obtain. Multiple 50's was more difficult.
A person who wants to see an improvement in their playing, needs to have an "arena" (per se) to play against other skilled, trying to win people.
Setting the game in a "casual" atmosphere does nothing but create more frustration for those of us who play 90% of the time to win. It matches me in social slayer (in reach) with players who aren't even close to where I am at. In H3, almost EVERY game was within 10 kills/points. There would be the occasional blowout, but that's ok and played itself out by either increasing or decreasing the numerical "rank". The problem with Arena in Reach is that it resets. There is no continuity. And I have to play several games to get my "rank" for the day...and their formula rewards the selfish players.
I have had onyx in arena. The way I got it was to go solo the majority of the time, and to steal kills and whore power weapons. THAT is not what defines a "good" halo player. Assists, kills, and map control define a good player. Forcing a formula to be selfish is NOT a good formula.
Sorry to burst the social bubble, but if there is no "ranked" play, then this will be the last "big" seller in the halo series.
The competitive peeps don't want to be an afterthought, much like Arena in reach has been.
Oh yeah, these people don't like the new sandbox; we'll just throw in a single playlist to try to appease them.
I'm SICK of being an afterthought. The game is better without all the bullshit and garbage. Reach is better in slayer pro with only sprint. Jetpack, light shield, and all that other stupid BS they should can and just quit catering to all the noobs.
I'm waiting, and crossing my fingers. But I think they've really shot themselves in the foot by not having anything "ranked".
You have to know that it is the more casual and campaign players that make these games work. They have a lot of catering power.
Careful with the "ranked" terminology. I think you mean "visible skill level"? All playlists use the results of True Skill and other influencers to setup matches. In the end, that's all most people want out of skill settings, just to be fairly matched.
No. I mean ranked slayer, objective, double team, snipers, mlg, and lone wolves.
THAT is what kept halo 3 alive, and that is what keeps reach's population down.
EXP rank is not what I am refering to. I H3, your rank was directly proportional to your skill level. In reach, you never have to reach "onyx" to reach inheritor, which is sad.
A single 50 in Halo 3 was not difficult to obtain. Multiple 50's was more difficult.
A person who wants to see an improvement in their playing, needs to have an "arena" (per se) to play against other skilled, trying to win people.
Setting the game in a "casual" atmosphere does nothing but create more frustration for those of us who play 90% of the time to win. It matches me in social slayer (in reach) with players who aren't even close to where I am at. In H3, almost EVERY game was within 10 kills/points. There would be the occasional blowout, but that's ok and played itself out by either increasing or decreasing the numerical "rank". The problem with Arena in Reach is that it resets. There is no continuity. And I have to play several games to get my "rank" for the day...and their formula rewards the selfish players.
I have had onyx in arena. The way I got it was to go solo the majority of the time, and to steal kills and whore power weapons. THAT is not what defines a "good" halo player. Assists, kills, and map control define a good player. Forcing a formula to be selfish is NOT a good formula.
Sorry to burst the social bubble, but if there is no "ranked" play, then this will be the last "big" seller in the halo series.
So many points and some I don't agree with.
As I surmised, you were not talking about EXP rankings.
I have to ask. Are you unaware that you were ranked by skill, using True Skill and other criteria in all of the playlists in both Halo 3 and REACH? Did you know that in REACH when you play in a playlist for the first time you are treated like an average player? I.E. if 1-50 a new player is automatically a 25. Apparently it can take ~10 to 20 games in a playlist before your True Skill level is ascertained. Until your skill level is determined, you are either going to have a really good day or a really bad day.
The big difference with REACH was the lack of any visibility of that "per playlist skill" unless you went into ARENA. Halo 4's playlist will all be ranked using True Skill and new MM criteria but without a visible skill. Basically the same as REACH.
Some people simply want a visible skill number associated to them. I wish they could have it. At the same time, I would wish that everyone else who doesn't, should be able to hide their visible skill from the public. It's fine with me but the value of such things is always diminished by the unscrupulous behavior of those who acquire it inappropriately and others who say things like "your less than a (insert any number) so you know nothing about what is good for Halo". I had the frequent displeasure of putting up with Halo 3 boosters/de-rankers/twink tags and verbal/written abuse from people who thought that little number next to their GT gave them title to belittle whomever they felt like doing it to.
The more "social" playlists have always been the highly populated and the lack of any visible rank has never been a negative factor.
The competitive peeps don't want to be an afterthought, much like Arena in reach has been.
Oh yeah, these people don't like the new sandbox; we'll just throw in a single playlist to try to appease them.
I'm SICK of being an afterthought. The game is better without all the bullshit and garbage. Reach is better in slayer pro with only sprint. Jetpack, light shield, and all that other stupid BS they should can and just quit catering to all the noobs.
I'm waiting, and crossing my fingers. But I think they've really shot themselves in the foot by not having anything "ranked".
You have to know that it is the more casual and campaign players that make these games work. They have a lot of catering power.
Careful with the "ranked" terminology. I think you mean "visible skill level"? All playlists use the results of True Skill and other influencers to setup matches. In the end, that's all most people want out of skill settings, just to be fairly matched.
No. I mean ranked slayer, objective, double team, snipers, mlg, and lone wolves.
THAT is what kept halo 3 alive, and that is what keeps reach's population down.
EXP rank is not what I am refering to. I H3, your rank was directly proportional to your skill level. In reach, you never have to reach "onyx" to reach inheritor, which is sad.
A single 50 in Halo 3 was not difficult to obtain. Multiple 50's was more difficult.
A person who wants to see an improvement in their playing, needs to have an "arena" (per se) to play against other skilled, trying to win people.
Setting the game in a "casual" atmosphere does nothing but create more frustration for those of us who play 90% of the time to win. It matches me in social slayer (in reach) with players who aren't even close to where I am at. In H3, almost EVERY game was within 10 kills/points. There would be the occasional blowout, but that's ok and played itself out by either increasing or decreasing the numerical "rank". The problem with Arena in Reach is that it resets. There is no continuity. And I have to play several games to get my "rank" for the day...and their formula rewards the selfish players.
I have had onyx in arena. The way I got it was to go solo the majority of the time, and to steal kills and whore power weapons. THAT is not what defines a "good" halo player. Assists, kills, and map control define a good player. Forcing a formula to be selfish is NOT a good formula.
Sorry to burst the social bubble, but if there is no "ranked" play, then this will be the last "big" seller in the halo series.
So many points and some I don't agree with.
As I surmised, you were not talking about EXP rankings.
I have to ask. Are you unaware that you were ranked by skill, using True Skill and other criteria in all of the playlists in both Halo 3 and REACH? Did you know that in REACH when you play in a playlist for the first time you are treated like an average player? I.E. if 1-50 a new player is automatically a 25. Apparently it can take ~10 to 20 games in a playlist before your True Skill level is ascertained. Until your skill level is determined, you are either going to have a really good day or a really bad day.
The big difference with REACH was the lack of any visibility of that "per playlist skill" unless you went into ARENA. Halo 4's playlist will all be ranked using True Skill and new MM criteria but without a visible skill. Basically the same as REACH.
Some people simply want a visible skill number associated to them. I wish they could have it. At the same time, I would wish that everyone else who doesn't, should be able to hide their visible skill from the public. It's fine with me but the value of such things is always diminished by the unscrupulous behavior of those who acquire it inappropriately and others who say things like "your less than a (insert any number) so you know nothing about what is good for Halo". I had the frequent displeasure of putting up with Halo 3 boosters/de-rankers/twink tags and verbal/written abuse from people who thought that little number next to their GT gave them title to belittle whomever they felt like doing it to.
The more "social" playlists have always been the highly populated and the lack of any visible rank has never been a negative factor.
Still it's a fix to a non-existant problem.
Arena is garbage. Everyone agrees. Their truskill matching system...wait for it...is garbage.
I have had potentially one good close game a NIGHT in reach. Very rarely do I find a team that makes me have to try. not saying that I'm the most badass halo player, but there seriously is no challenge beating up on randoms with GUESTS...
I like playing the ranked lists, as do many others. Who cares about boosters and derankers really? it's just that much more pleasing to stomp someone who paid 1600 MSP to get a 50. It was also a nice way to earn extra MSP's btw...
The truth is, they are getting out of it because they couldn't make any money on people "selling" the accounts. They fought VERY hard to keep them off craigslist and ebay, and now they are trying to circumvent it all together. The major problem is MS tou, unlike WoW, the account is still Microsofts no matter how much time and/or money you put into it. It's still "theirs". Same with the xbox and the game that we pay to play.
As I've said before, they are pushing their comp people to the side, and are catering to people who have literally zero hand eye coordination...or tactics.
They even took away knowing weapon respawn times with their stupid HUD displays of weapon drops.
Also, in Halo 3 right before reach launched, ranked had MORE people than social any time I was on. Social slayer had the most, and then the next ones were MLG, Ranked Slayer/dubs/snipes. Saying that they've always been "the most played" is a copout. Of course they were, unless you add in where the majority of the total players actually were most of the time.
It's okay though, because making people like myself play with their noobies is just going to get me even more unsportsman or overly aggressive feedback. I'm now sitting at 23% preferred...not that it matters anyways.
I have had potentially one good close game a NIGHT in reach. Very rarely do I find a team that makes me have to try. not saying that I'm the most badass halo player, but there seriously is no challenge beating up on randoms with GUESTS...
You certainly are having problems getting a good match right now and probably that has been true for quite awhile. Many people are experiencing the same problem.
There are too many playlists in REACH. It's both Bungie's and 343i's fault. The population is split too many ways for various reasons and the end results are not enough possibilities to always give good matching results.
What time of day do you play? North American peak was the most reasonable time to look for a good match. I doubt even that is a good time now.
They even took away knowing weapon respawn times with their stupid HUD displays of weapon drops.
This is the thing I am most unhappy about. Players no longer need to know power weapon spawns. It clutters up the screen and takes some of the skill out of the game. I'm sure the noobs will love it, though.
They even took away knowing weapon respawn times with their stupid HUD displays of weapon drops.
This is the thing I am most unhappy about. Players no longer need to know power weapon spawns. It clutters up the screen and takes some of the skill out of the game. I'm sure the noobs will love it, though.
I think that's a solid concession. I'm willing to try it out before passing judgement. It might take a little less "skill", for lack of a better word.
Except, if I recall correctly, ranked not only rivaled but sometimes surpassed social populations in H3. People want visible ranking (skill based). From someone who didn't care about ranking (high skill level 1), I want rankings. It adds another incentive to play and keep playing. I can't honestly believe that the amount of derankers and boosters was so much that it led to the decision to keep rankings out. Most of the boosting and deranking was done towards the end of H3's life.
And this is xbox live: you're going to encounter assholes in every multiplayer game. Just report/block communications and move on. Nowadays, it's all about positive reinforcement. Don't hurt anyone's feelings. Having a visible ranking based on skill may hurt Player X's feelings if he's only a 23. He'll feel judged and we don't want that! Instead, we're going to give points for anything and everything you can do in a game. Enemy X happened to look at Player X while being shot by Player Z? Good job Player X! Distraction medal and 5 points for you! A 5-second respawn times makes you think about how you died? Never!! We'll add instant respawns to make it seem as if you never did! Soon every game will come with a 6-month supply of tissues and coupons for free psychologcal sessions, where Dr. Dixon will inform you that it is not your fault you are less skilled than someone else.
Except, if I recall correctly, ranked not only rivaled but sometimes surpassed social populations in H3.
I want to address this point. I don't remember it that way, but memory is crap evidence. So I went to a friend who collected that kind of data.
The only way they (ranked) rivalled the social population was collectively as one unit.On their own? Not even close. Social Slayer was the most populous permanent playlist from launch to today.
Except, if I recall correctly, ranked not only rivaled but sometimes surpassed social populations in H3.
I want to address this point. I don't remember it that way, but memory is crap evidence. So I went to a friend who collected that kind of data.
The only way they (ranked) rivalled the social population was collectively as one unit.On their own? Not even close. Social Slayer was the most populous permanent playlist from launch to today.
Except, if I recall correctly, ranked not only rivaled but sometimes surpassed social populations in H3.
I want to address this point. I don't remember it that way, but memory is crap evidence. So I went to a friend who collected that kind of data.
The only way they (ranked) rivalled the social population was collectively as one unit.On their own? Not even close. Social Slayer was the most populous permanent playlist from launch to today.
I want to address this point. I don't remember it that way, but memory is crap evidence. So I went to a friend who collected that kind of data.
The only way they (ranked) rivalled the social population was collectively as one unit.On their own? Not even close. Social Slayer was the most populous permanent playlist from launch to today.
Crazy. Social Slayer and Team Slayer each individually had higher populations alone than all of Reach has had on some nights.
Reach matchmaking became a waste land post Bungie Day 2011 until holiday 2011. I recall the Reach population being anywhere from 25k to 40k at peak times around the release of MW3.
I want to address this point. I don't remember it that way, but memory is crap evidence. So I went to a friend who collected that kind of data.
The only way they (ranked) rivalled the social population was collectively as one unit.On their own? Not even close. Social Slayer was the most populous permanent playlist from launch to today.
Crazy. Social Slayer and Team Slayer each individually had higher populations alone than all of Reach has had on some nights.
Reach matchmaking became a waste land post Bungie Day 2011 until holiday 2011. I recall the Reach population being anywhere from 25k to 40k at peak times around the release of MW3.
Memory is a terrible thing. I have a few numbers I personally collected.
No, the population on Bungie day was around 125k if I remember correctly. However, the population dropped off after that, hitting its low around MW3, until those 360 + Reach bundles started showing up under fake trees. The TU Beta (early October '11) & Anni maps (middle November '11) didn't do much for Reach's in game numbers at the time.
No, the population on Bungie day was around 125k if I remember correctly. However, the population dropped off after that, hitting its low around MW3, until those 360 + Reach bundles started showing up under fake trees. The TU Beta (early October '11) & Anni maps (middle November '11) didn't do much for Reach's in game numbers at the time.
If the number you remember is around 125,000 it was probably the total online. In order to get total MM you must collect each separate playlist value and then sum them. Did you do that? MM is usually between 50%-60% of total online putting it at 62,500 to 75,000 and that seems about right for REACH on Bungie Day. The 24hr UU peaked the same as February 2011 so it's likely to have similar MM values for that day. :)
If the number you remember is around 125,000 it was probably the total online. In order to get total MM you must collect each separate playlist value and then sum them. Did you do that? MM is usually between 50%-60% of total online putting it at 62,500 to 75,000 and that seems about right for REACH on Bungie Day. The 24hr UU peaked the same as February 2011 so it's likely to have similar MM values for that day. :)
I'm with you, DEEP. I was just saying in my previous post that when comparing Reach's population low point in autumn 2011 to the figures you posted of H3 in 2009, Reach was in a pretty bad state. Funny, considering that both the numbers of either the Social Slayer playlist, or the Team Slayer playlist were above or on par with Reach's total population on a given day in fall '11.
wamam87 wrote:
so DEEP's statement leads me to believe that the online players would include campaign, main menu, and title screen users. True?
I believe the population numbers totaled from the active roster include only those actually in game. So that doesn't include anyone sitting in lobbies or the title screen.
If the number you remember is around 125,000 it was probably the total online. In order to get total MM you must collect each separate playlist value and then sum them. Did you do that? MM is usually between 50%-60% of total online putting it at 62,500 to 75,000 and that seems about right for REACH on Bungie Day. The 24hr UU peaked the same as February 2011 so it's likely to have similar MM values for that day. :)
I'm with you, DEEP. I was just saying in my previous post that when comparing Reach's population low point in autumn 2011 to the figures you posted of H3 in 2009, Reach was in a pretty bad state. Funny, considering that both the numbers of either the Social Slayer playlist, or the Team Slayer playlist were above or on par with Reach's total population on a given day in fall '11.
wamam87 wrote:
so DEEP's statement leads me to believe that the online players would include campaign, main menu, and title screen users. True?
I believe the population numbers totaled from the active roster include only those actually in game. So that doesn't include anyone sitting in lobbies or the title screen.
Roger on you were with me. I was dragging out some more numbers for your point.
I just double checked REACH. When you first select Matchmaking, in the upper left corner you will see X Players Online. Selecting Playlist takes you in further and you can then review the individual playlist populations. If you total up every playlist item, the sum will usually be 50%-60% of Players Online. That means 40%-50% of Players Online are doing something else. I.E. Campaign, Theatre, Customs, Forge and of course idling.
A few of you have played Halo with me. You probably wouldn't consider me a competitive player. But sometimes, I am. I liked the "ranked" playlists, and hated Reach for taking them away. I never boosted...I never played "ranked" games with my level 40-50 friends. But it was nice to have the option of running around and playing stupid game types like Action Sack, or going into SWAT, Doubles, TS or Lone Wolves. The XP system annoys me, AND some kids actually talk shit to people with a high XP thingy. There will be assholes regardless of the "rank" system.
I like options. I liked the number by my GT...not because I was better than anyone else, but because I earned it, and it gave me incentive to play. Goals to hit. Reach = goalless.
A few of you have played Halo with me. You probably wouldn't consider me a competitive player. But sometimes, I am. I liked the "ranked" playlists, and hated Reach for taking them away. I never boosted...I never played "ranked" games with my level 40-50 friends. But it was nice to have the option of running around and playing stupid game types like Action Sack, or going into SWAT, Doubles, TS or Lone Wolves. The XP system annoys me, AND some kids actually talk shit to people with a high XP thingy. There will be assholes regardless of the "rank" system.
I like options. I liked the number by my GT...not because I was better than anyone else, but because I earned it, and it gave me incentive to play. Goals to hit. Reach = goalless.
You can be competitive and want rankings and not be the best player. Those two aren't mutually exclusive.
A few of you have played Halo with me. You probably wouldn't consider me a competitive player. But sometimes, I am. I liked the "ranked" playlists, and hated Reach for taking them away. I never boosted...I never played "ranked" games with my level 40-50 friends. But it was nice to have the option of running around and playing stupid game types like Action Sack, or going into SWAT, Doubles, TS or Lone Wolves. The XP system annoys me, AND some kids actually talk shit to people with a high XP thingy. There will be assholes regardless of the "rank" system.
I like options. I liked the number by my GT...not because I was better than anyone else, but because I earned it, and it gave me incentive to play. Goals to hit. Reach = goalless.
You can be competitive and want rankings and not be the best player. Those two aren't mutually exclusive.
A few of you have played Halo with me. You probably wouldn't consider me a competitive player. But sometimes, I am. I liked the "ranked" playlists, and hated Reach for taking them away. I never boosted...I never played "ranked" games with my level 40-50 friends. But it was nice to have the option of running around and playing stupid game types like Action Sack, or going into SWAT, Doubles, TS or Lone Wolves. The XP system annoys me, AND some kids actually talk shit to people with a high XP thingy. There will be assholes regardless of the "rank" system.
I like options. I liked the number by my GT...not because I was better than anyone else, but because I earned it, and it gave me incentive to play. Goals to hit. Reach = goalless.
You can be competitive and want rankings and not be the best player. Those two aren't mutually exclusive.
A few of you have played Halo with me. You probably wouldn't consider me a competitive player. But sometimes, I am. I liked the "ranked" playlists, and hated Reach for taking them away. I never boosted...I never played "ranked" games with my level 40-50 friends. But it was nice to have the option of running around and playing stupid game types like Action Sack, or going into SWAT, Doubles, TS or Lone Wolves. The XP system annoys me, AND some kids actually talk shit to people with a high XP thingy. There will be assholes regardless of the "rank" system.
I like options. I liked the number by my GT...not because I was better than anyone else, but because I earned it, and it gave me incentive to play. Goals to hit. Reach = goalless.
You can be competitive and want rankings and not be the best player. Those two aren't mutually exclusive.
Unique user stats are BS. We are talking matchmaking. Not campaign, not firefight, not customs. Actual MMing.
Social slayer was about equal to what ranked games were, cumulatively. To eliminate all ranked lists was a travesty, and is why reach is suffering; besides AA/Bloom driving people away.
No matter how you spin the numbers, those of us who played ranked daily; are now being cast aside. And we seem to be a lot of the people who helped give Bungie and Halo a name.
Arena is a failed attempt to fix a problem. There are still "skilled" players, several of which don't play arena anymore and get matched with horrible people. Truskill is broken, as is the arena rating formula. It would not be hard to tweak the skill ratings to be cumulative in a playlist.
Slayer variant: (Kills + Assists+(1/2)number of sprees)/(Deaths+Suicides(1/2)+Betrayals(2))
All of these need to be averaged out, and then based on performance and percents a numerical value could be given from 1-50. It's not that hard, and is VERY similar to what is done in Reach's arena. All of this could be done server side, just store the number on the hard drive. No system resources. Someone is just trying to be controlling...and cater to the people on the 1-20 spectrum.
Unless you've played the default game, how can a person say increased base speed would be an improvement? Maybe I6_Hitman has a clue about it?
You're tiring me out again Dixon and I haven't even had a chance to play in a game with you yet.
Right. With involvement comes, you know, playing the product and testing it out. I wouldn't expect anyone to say that they felt the base player speed should be increased slightly. I'm actually a little shocked with that, and thought things were pretty fast anyways, but I'm fine with it. In the end, it comes down to purifying the experience. The question to ask, that we can't have answered, is if we'd be better off just increasing the base player speed and not having Sprint as a mandatory Armor Ability. I'm sure it was brought up and discussed, probably at some length, but I'd be curious to hear why.
Isn't it like 10% faster movement speed? I mean, is that really what the issue is here?
"I don't like this playlist, it's too competitive. It let's everyone take 11 steps in the time it'd normally take a spartan to take 10 steps in Infinity Slayer. I quit."
I mean, really?
As for the 1-50 stuff, I've never felt it added anything to the game. It really has no meaning to me when I've come across in Halo 3 so many people who boosted/changed language/were "letting my sister play"/just weren't good versus my team yet they clearly had a higher number on the scale.
What does it add? A way to compare e-peen? It doesn't add a way to match people - that's already there. Besides, I'd hope that we are matched with others on more than just one "skill number". I hope there's more factors than that. It does add frustration. Players go down in rank, they get discouraged. I've had friends on Xbox Live that stopped playing Halo 3 because they felt they couldn't progress any further. They stopped enjoying the game because no matter how much they played, their stupid number of rank wouldn't change.
You get matched with people around your skill level, but without a visible number that discourages people from playing while it would encourage people to cheat and boost. Yeah, that sounds so terrible?
Also the Slayer Pro playlist is a godsend for people who don't play too much, or get the game after release. It's more balanced in terms of rank not factoring in to what abilities and weapons you can bring to the battle.
Yet, that's what we had with Reach, and comparatively few folks play it.
The competitive peeps don't want to be an afterthought, much like Arena in reach has been.
Oh yeah, these people don't like the new sandbox; we'll just throw in a single playlist to try to appease them.
I'm SICK of being an afterthought. The game is better without all the bullshit and garbage. Reach is better in slayer pro with only sprint. Jetpack, light shield, and all that other stupid BS they should can and just quit catering to all the noobs.
I'm waiting, and crossing my fingers. But I think they've really shot themselves in the foot by not having anything "ranked".
Careful with the "ranked" terminology. I think you mean "visible skill level"? All playlists use the results of True Skill and other influencers to setup matches. In the end, that's all most people want out of skill settings, just to be fairly matched.
No. I mean ranked slayer, objective, double team, snipers, mlg, and lone wolves.
THAT is what kept halo 3 alive, and that is what keeps reach's population down.
EXP rank is not what I am refering to. I H3, your rank was directly proportional to your skill level. In reach, you never have to reach "onyx" to reach inheritor, which is sad.
A single 50 in Halo 3 was not difficult to obtain. Multiple 50's was more difficult.
A person who wants to see an improvement in their playing, needs to have an "arena" (per se) to play against other skilled, trying to win people.
Setting the game in a "casual" atmosphere does nothing but create more frustration for those of us who play 90% of the time to win. It matches me in social slayer (in reach) with players who aren't even close to where I am at. In H3, almost EVERY game was within 10 kills/points. There would be the occasional blowout, but that's ok and played itself out by either increasing or decreasing the numerical "rank". The problem with Arena in Reach is that it resets. There is no continuity. And I have to play several games to get my "rank" for the day...and their formula rewards the selfish players.
I have had onyx in arena. The way I got it was to go solo the majority of the time, and to steal kills and whore power weapons. THAT is not what defines a "good" halo player. Assists, kills, and map control define a good player. Forcing a formula to be selfish is NOT a good formula.
Sorry to burst the social bubble, but if there is no "ranked" play, then this will be the last "big" seller in the halo series.
As I surmised, you were not talking about EXP rankings.
I have to ask. Are you unaware that you were ranked by skill, using True Skill and other criteria in all of the playlists in both Halo 3 and REACH? Did you know that in REACH when you play in a playlist for the first time you are treated like an average player? I.E. if 1-50 a new player is automatically a 25. Apparently it can take ~10 to 20 games in a playlist before your True Skill level is ascertained. Until your skill level is determined, you are either going to have a really good day or a really bad day.
The big difference with REACH was the lack of any visibility of that "per playlist skill" unless you went into ARENA. Halo 4's playlist will all be ranked using True Skill and new MM criteria but without a visible skill. Basically the same as REACH.
Some people simply want a visible skill number associated to them. I wish they could have it. At the same time, I would wish that everyone else who doesn't, should be able to hide their visible skill from the public.
It's fine with me but the value of such things is always diminished by the unscrupulous behavior of those who acquire it inappropriately and others who say things like "your less than a (insert any number) so you know nothing about what is good for Halo". I had the frequent displeasure of putting up with Halo 3 boosters/de-rankers/twink tags and verbal/written abuse from people who thought that little number next to their GT gave them title to belittle whomever they felt like doing it to.
The more "social" playlists have always been the highly populated and the lack of any visible rank has never been a negative factor.
Still it's a fix to a non-existant problem.
Arena is garbage. Everyone agrees. Their truskill matching system...wait for it...is garbage.
I have had potentially one good close game a NIGHT in reach. Very rarely do I find a team that makes me have to try. not saying that I'm the most badass halo player, but there seriously is no challenge beating up on randoms with GUESTS...
I like playing the ranked lists, as do many others. Who cares about boosters and derankers really? it's just that much more pleasing to stomp someone who paid 1600 MSP to get a 50. It was also a nice way to earn extra MSP's btw...
The truth is, they are getting out of it because they couldn't make any money on people "selling" the accounts. They fought VERY hard to keep them off craigslist and ebay, and now they are trying to circumvent it all together. The major problem is MS tou, unlike WoW, the account is still Microsofts no matter how much time and/or money you put into it. It's still "theirs". Same with the xbox and the game that we pay to play.
As I've said before, they are pushing their comp people to the side, and are catering to people who have literally zero hand eye coordination...or tactics.
They even took away knowing weapon respawn times with their stupid HUD displays of weapon drops.
Also, in Halo 3 right before reach launched, ranked had MORE people than social any time I was on. Social slayer had the most, and then the next ones were MLG, Ranked Slayer/dubs/snipes. Saying that they've always been "the most played" is a copout. Of course they were, unless you add in where the majority of the total players actually were most of the time.
It's okay though, because making people like myself play with their noobies is just going to get me even more unsportsman or overly aggressive feedback. I'm now sitting at 23% preferred...not that it matters anyways.
There are too many playlists in REACH. It's both Bungie's and 343i's fault. The population is split too many ways for various reasons and the end results are not enough possibilities to always give good matching results.
What time of day do you play? North American peak was the most reasonable time to look for a good match. I doubt even that is a good time now.
This is the thing I am most unhappy about. Players no longer need to know power weapon spawns. It clutters up the screen and takes some of the skill out of the game. I'm sure the noobs will love it, though.
I think that's a solid concession. I'm willing to try it out before passing judgement. It might take a little less "skill", for lack of a better word.
Except, if I recall correctly, ranked not only rivaled but sometimes surpassed social populations in H3. People want visible ranking (skill based). From someone who didn't care about ranking (high skill level 1), I want rankings. It adds another incentive to play and keep playing. I can't honestly believe that the amount of derankers and boosters was so much that it led to the decision to keep rankings out. Most of the boosting and deranking was done towards the end of H3's life.
And this is xbox live: you're going to encounter assholes in every multiplayer game. Just report/block communications and move on. Nowadays, it's all about positive reinforcement. Don't hurt anyone's feelings. Having a visible ranking based on skill may hurt Player X's feelings if he's only a 23. He'll feel judged and we don't want that! Instead, we're going to give points for anything and everything you can do in a game. Enemy X happened to look at Player X while being shot by Player Z? Good job Player X! Distraction medal and 5 points for you! A 5-second respawn times makes you think about how you died? Never!! We'll add instant respawns to make it seem as if you never did! Soon every game will come with a 6-month supply of tissues and coupons for free psychologcal sessions, where Dr. Dixon will inform you that it is not your fault you are less skilled than someone else..gif "113")
Crazy. Social Slayer and Team Slayer each individually had higher populations alone than all of Reach has had on some nights.
Reach matchmaking became a waste land post Bungie Day 2011 until holiday 2011. I recall the Reach population being anywhere from 25k to 40k at peak times around the release of MW3.
Total REACH MM
82,246 March 29, 2011 8:00pm EST
72,977 April 22, 2011 8:00pm EST
60,558 May 05, 2011 8:00pm EST
Please check out this playlist study I did from Dec. 2011 to almost feb. 2012. Total MM population was 40,000 to almost 70,000 around 7:00 Eastern.
While I don't have Bungie Day MM values, my data suggests it wasn't as low as 25,000 to 40,000. This population report I did is a measure of total unique users in 24 hours over 1 year. This is not a measure of total MM but those values do go up and down in sync with it.
fix'd =P
No, the population on Bungie day was around 125k if I remember correctly. However, the population dropped off after that, hitting its low around MW3, until those 360 + Reach bundles started showing up under fake trees. The TU Beta (early October '11) & Anni maps (middle November '11) didn't do much for Reach's in game numbers at the time.
I'm with you, DEEP. I was just saying in my previous post that when comparing Reach's population low point in autumn 2011 to the figures you posted of H3 in 2009, Reach was in a pretty bad state. Funny, considering that both the numbers of either the Social Slayer playlist, or the Team Slayer playlist were above or on par with Reach's total population on a given day in fall '11.
I believe the population numbers totaled from the active roster include only those actually in game. So that doesn't include anyone sitting in lobbies or the title screen.
Roger on you were with me. I was dragging out some more numbers for your point.
I just double checked REACH. When you first select Matchmaking, in the upper left corner you will see X Players Online. Selecting Playlist takes you in further and you can then review the individual playlist populations. If you total up every playlist item, the sum will usually be 50%-60% of Players Online. That means 40%-50% of Players Online are doing something else. I.E. Campaign, Theatre, Customs, Forge and of course idling.
E Pluribus Unum: Matchmaking in HALO 3
This is a very good Bungie article on matching players for games in Halo 3 and a lot of the complex issues affecting it.
Some of the formulae for match making was changed for REACH but True Skill is still used.
True Skill is an Industry Standard. Its use is mandatory for all games on the XBox 360 but let us just say FPS for now.
A few of you have played Halo with me. You probably wouldn't consider me a competitive player. But sometimes, I am. I liked the "ranked" playlists, and hated Reach for taking them away. I never boosted...I never played "ranked" games with my level 40-50 friends. But it was nice to have the option of running around and playing stupid game types like Action Sack, or going into SWAT, Doubles, TS or Lone Wolves. The XP system annoys me, AND some kids actually talk shit to people with a high XP thingy. There will be assholes regardless of the "rank" system.
I like options. I liked the number by my GT...not because I was better than anyone else, but because I earned it, and it gave me incentive to play. Goals to hit. Reach = goalless.
You can be competitive and want rankings and not be the best player. Those two aren't mutually exclusive.
You would know Dixon.
Zing :)
Exactly.
so DEEP's statement leads me to believe that the online players would include campaign, main menu, and title screen users. True?
Unique user stats are BS. We are talking matchmaking. Not campaign, not firefight, not customs. Actual MMing.
Social slayer was about equal to what ranked games were, cumulatively. To eliminate all ranked lists was a travesty, and is why reach is suffering; besides AA/Bloom driving people away.
No matter how you spin the numbers, those of us who played ranked daily; are now being cast aside. And we seem to be a lot of the people who helped give Bungie and Halo a name.
Arena is a failed attempt to fix a problem. There are still "skilled" players, several of which don't play arena anymore and get matched with horrible people. Truskill is broken, as is the arena rating formula. It would not be hard to tweak the skill ratings to be cumulative in a playlist.
Slayer variant: (Kills + Assists+(1/2)number of sprees)/(Deaths+Suicides(1/2)+Betrayals(2))
Objective: (Kills+Assists+Objective Grabs(1/3)+Objective Caps(1/2)+stops(5/8))/(deaths+suicides+betrayals(2))
All of these need to be averaged out, and then based on performance and percents a numerical value could be given from 1-50. It's not that hard, and is VERY similar to what is done in Reach's arena. All of this could be done server side, just store the number on the hard drive. No system resources. Someone is just trying to be controlling...and cater to the people on the 1-20 spectrum.