Halo 4 - Active Camo/Radar Jamming

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#1 Sat, 09/08/2012 - 10:19
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Halo 4 - Active Camo/Radar Jamming

Maybe I was asleep but this is the first comment I've read on the Radar Jamming attributes of Active Camo. It sounds much better than REACH's to me.

3. Active camo is better this time around. I was using it to troll the shit out of people on Adrift (Assassino!) The radar jammer this time around is a bit more believable. Instead of 50 dots popping up, letting you know someone is jamming, you get a few on the periphery making normal movements. Enough so, that you could question whether they are player or fraud.

 

http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1152522

 

its been seen in many videos so far, it still jams radar

instead of flooding your motion tracker with red dots, it shows them as Blue, which is neither friendly nor Foe
it also shows up on enemy radar as blue

I guess this is to alleviate the issue with a couple of camo players running in unison and the opponents having no idea whatsoever

Sat, 09/08/2012 - 11:52
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Yeah, I think this might be a better way to handle it.  In a game, when your radar was going crazy, that was an immediate callout to the rest of the team.  Unless they're camping somewhere, they're going to be moving around and visible.

Sat, 09/08/2012 - 12:20
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I'm really tired, so this may be a stupid question:  so invis jerk face guy jams radar somewhat, with blue dots. But his non-invis teammates moving around show up "normal"? Regular red dots? 

Sat, 09/08/2012 - 13:14
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They shouldn't show up at all on enemy radar unless they are moving IMHO, and their radar should become inactive all together.

 

Sounds to me like they are trying to make it easier to camp with camo.  I can tell based on the blips as to where someone is.  no need to fix it, as it is balanced.

 

UGH to the 5th degree.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 13:52 (Reply to #4)
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Double T wrote:

They shouldn't show up at all on enemy radar unless they are moving IMHO, and their radar should become inactive all together.

 

Sounds to me like they are trying to make it easier to camp with camo.  I can tell based on the blips as to where someone is.  no need to fix it, as it is balanced.

 

UGH to the 5th degree.

 

I have to agree heavily with you here.  In Reach it became painfully obvious to tell right where a camo'd person was simply by looking at the jammed radar dots.  With three or four neutral dots on radar instead, it really tones down some of the usefulness of camo unless it removes all other dots from the radar as well.  If the normal red dots are still present while the blue dots are, what's the point exactly?

Love using camo in Reach not to actually cloak myself but as a mobile radar jammer to hide my teams movements.

Sat, 09/08/2012 - 16:38
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Active Camo shouldn't be an option for loadout.  It should be a pickup/ordnance drop option, just like OS.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 07:25 (Reply to #6)
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w0rm wrote:

Active Camo shouldn't be an option for loadout.  It should be a pickup/ordnance drop option, just like OS.

Agreed!

Guess we'll have more of the same with Camo Snipers...lame...

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 08:39 (Reply to #7)
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DarthTabasco wrote:

Agreed!

Guess we'll have more of the same with Camo Snipers...lame...

 

I hate the camo ability moreso than armor lock and jet packing for this sole reason.  By using camo and sniping, it's essentially informing me that you can't snipe/shoot without having 10 uninterrupted seconds to line up your shot.  I have no respect for people who use this combo.  Sorry if it offends anyone, but it's how I feel.  It breaks maps and map movement just as much as jetpacking does, but at least you can hear jetpackers.  /rant

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 08:43 (Reply to #8)
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OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:

DarthTabasco wrote:

Agreed!

Guess we'll have more of the same with Camo Snipers...lame...

 

I hate the camo ability moreso than armor lock and jet packing for this sole reason.  By using camo and sniping, it's essentially informing me that you can't snipe/shoot without having 10 uninterrupted seconds to line up your shot.  I have no respect for people who use this combo.  Sorry if it offends anyone, but it's how I feel.  It breaks maps and map movement just as much as jetpacking does, but at least you can hear jetpackers.  /rant

 

Which is why it's better off as a powerup instead of an Armor Ability.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:34 (Reply to #9)
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OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:

DarthTabasco wrote:

Agreed!

Guess we'll have more of the same with Camo Snipers...lame...

 

I hate the camo ability moreso than armor lock and jet packing for this sole reason.  By using camo and sniping, it's essentially informing me that you can't snipe/shoot without having 10 uninterrupted seconds to line up your shot.  I have no respect for people who use this combo.  Sorry if it offends anyone, but it's how I feel.  It breaks maps and map movement just as much as jetpacking does, but at least you can hear jetpackers.  /rant

The underlined is a little harsh and might get people upset. Thinking it is one thing but I hope to never hear it.

If a game offers legitimate capabilities to everyone, they are always fair. I.E. The noob-combo in Halo 2 was condemned by some and hailed by others. It was as intended and not some squirrely glitch. No advantage given or taken. No problem.

People like me are so terrible at lining a Sniper kill that using AC would not be an issue. They are not the problem. It's the skilled player doing the same thing that requires extra Team co-ordination to counter. It's painful when it happens but I am filled with glee when we call out the AC Sniper's position and somebody on the team nails him.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 11:46 (Reply to #10)
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DEEP_NNN wrote:

 

If a game offers legitimate capabilities to everyone, they are always fair. I.E. The noob-combo in Halo 2 was condemned by some and hailed by others. It was as intended and not some squirrely glitch. No advantage given or taken. No problem.

People like me are so terrible at lining a Sniper kill that using AC would not be an issue. They are not the problem. It's the skilled player doing the same thing that requires extra Team co-ordination to counter. It's painful when it happens but I am filled with glee when we call out the AC Sniper's position and somebody on the team nails him.

 

Not if they are game breaking.  Just because they were put in the game by the developers doesn't mean they are being used as intended.  Jetpacks break maps.  So does camo-sniping.  By the logic bolded above, the same could be true for hiding outside the map after building a lead.  Everyone can possibly get outside the map and it's not a glitch, so it's the opposing team's fault they can't counter right?

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 14:34 (Reply to #11)
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[/quote]

 

 By using camo and sniping, it's essentially informing me that you can't snipe/shoot without having 10 uninterrupted seconds to line up your shot.  I have no respect for people who use this combo.  Sorry if it offends anyone, but it's how I feel.

[/quote]

 

This is where you mention something about skill.  As someone who sucks at sniping (among other aspects of the game) and still can't make the shot after 10 seconds, I don't need to hear that using AC is some kind of cheating.  Congratulations on being an elite halo player, please don't crap on some of us more casual players.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 15:24 (Reply to #12)
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OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:

I hate the camo ability moreso than armor lock and jet packing for this sole reason.  By using camo and sniping, it's essentially informing me that you can't snipe/shoot without having 10 uninterrupted seconds to line up your shot.  I have no respect for people who use this combo.  Sorry if it offends anyone, but it's how I feel.  It breaks maps and map movement just as much as jetpacking does, but at least you can hear jetpackers.  /rant

 

I hope you never use sprint and sword together, never use a plasma grenade with armor lock, and never used drop shield in an objective game, because then I'd have no respect for you.

I don't mean to be a dick, but I think powerups and armor abilities have been in Halo for a long time, and people finding ways to use them to their advantage doesn't equate to a lack of skill.

Sometimes I need extra time to line up a shot while camo'd - such as on Asylum when the other sniper is cloaked and nearly invisible, barely moving, and across the map, and I want to make sure I get the headshot on this almost impossible to see opponent.  Does this mean I'm a bad player?

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 16:01 (Reply to #13)
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Autarch wrote:

OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:

I hate the camo ability moreso than armor lock and jet packing for this sole reason.  By using camo and sniping, it's essentially informing me that you can't snipe/shoot without having 10 uninterrupted seconds to line up your shot.  I have no respect for people who use this combo.  Sorry if it offends anyone, but it's how I feel.  It breaks maps and map movement just as much as jetpacking does, but at least you can hear jetpackers.  /rant

 

I hope you never use sprint and sword together, never use a plasma grenade with armor lock, and never used drop shield in an objective game, because then I'd have no respect for you.

I don't mean to be a dick, but I think powerups and armor abilities have been in Halo for a long time, and people finding ways to use them to their advantage doesn't equate to a lack of skill.

Sometimes I need extra time to line up a shot while camo'd - such as on Asylum when the other sniper is cloaked and nearly invisible, barely moving, and across the map, and I want to make sure I get the headshot on this almost impossible to see opponent.  Does this mean I'm a bad player?

 

Rarely use sword.  If I do it means I'm on a smaller map, in which case I'm using hologram to troll, so the sprint/sword combo is a rarity.  My philosopy regarding the sword is:  if I can't kill them without sprinting to them, use a gun.  Because if I need to sprint to their location and they are a decent shot, they can either kill me while sprinting or get me so weak a teammate can clean up.  Result is both instances?  Loss of sword.  I can probably count the number of times using armor lock on both hands.  And I've never used drop shield.

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 16:11 (Reply to #14)
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OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:

Autarch wrote:

OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:

I hate the camo ability moreso than armor lock and jet packing for this sole reason.  By using camo and sniping, it's essentially informing me that you can't snipe/shoot without having 10 uninterrupted seconds to line up your shot.  I have no respect for people who use this combo.  Sorry if it offends anyone, but it's how I feel.  It breaks maps and map movement just as much as jetpacking does, but at least you can hear jetpackers.  /rant

 

I hope you never use sprint and sword together, never use a plasma grenade with armor lock, and never used drop shield in an objective game, because then I'd have no respect for you.

I don't mean to be a dick, but I think powerups and armor abilities have been in Halo for a long time, and people finding ways to use them to their advantage doesn't equate to a lack of skill.

Sometimes I need extra time to line up a shot while camo'd - such as on Asylum when the other sniper is cloaked and nearly invisible, barely moving, and across the map, and I want to make sure I get the headshot on this almost impossible to see opponent.  Does this mean I'm a bad player?

 

Rarely use sword.  If I do it means I'm on a smaller map, in which case I'm using hologram to troll, so the sprint/sword combo is a rarity.  My philosopy regarding the sword is:  if I can't kill them without sprinting to them, use a gun.  Because if I need to sprint to their location and they are a decent shot, they can either kill me while sprinting or get me so weak a teammate can clean up.  Result is both instances?  Loss of sword.  I can probably count the number of times using armor lock on both hands.  And I've never used drop shield.

 

 

I believe ya.  My point wasn't that you're bad, it was simply that just because someone uses a particular combo doesn't mean they are noobish, unskilled, or should lose anyone's respect.  I believe the intent with armor abilities in Reach was that some would counter others, and that interesting combinations could arise.  I don't think it's a flawless system.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 16:22 (Reply to #15)
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Autarch wrote:

 

I believe ya.  My point wasn't that you're bad, it was simply that just because someone uses a particular combo doesn't mean they are noobish, unskilled, or should lose anyone's respect.  I believe the intent with armor abilities in Reach was that some would counter others, and that interesting combinations could arise.  I don't think it's a flawless system.

 

When running with a team and we encounter a lesser skilled team, having them using camo-snipe doesn't really affect the outcome of the game (although it still slows the game down considerably).  However, playing against a similar skilled team that is using camo-snipe turns the game into a stalemate.  Exactly as you mentioned earlier, if you run into a team using this setup, you counter with the same setup.  I've played too many slayer and objective games against good people with a final score of 34-32 or 0-0 in objective.  It's not fun.  With all of us being older and having jobs, wives or husbands, kids, etc, I don't want to spend my time on Halo popping in and out of cover to put a few shots into someone only to be shot at by an invisible enemy, go into cover, rinse and repeat.  One way to equate how broken a setup is, is by visiting some halo sites.  Many, like on btb.net and what used to be halocharts, have/had unwritten rules that when facing opponents you know or are equally skilled, you refrain from using camo-snipe and armor lock. Interestingly, jetpacks were ok.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 16:12 (Reply to #16)
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OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:

Rarely use sword.  If I do it means I'm on a smaller map, in which case I'm using hologram to troll, so the sprint/sword combo is a rarity.  My philosopy regarding the sword is:  if I can't kill them without sprinting to them, use a gun.  Because if I need to sprint to their location and they are a decent shot, they can either kill me while sprinting or get me so weak a teammate can clean up.  Result is both instances?  Loss of sword.  I can probably count the number of times using armor lock on both hands.  And I've never used drop shield.

 

I wish I could remember this philosophy.156

I give up the Sword so often for the dumbest reasons.

Sat, 09/08/2012 - 16:43
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I agree.  I'd rather it a powerup and not affect your radar at all.  However, that doesn't seem to be the situation we're presented with.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 09:09
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For me, the radar jamming aspect was the worst thing about active camo. It messes up everybody's radar, teammates and enemies alike. So, I'm disappointed to see that part of it returning. I don't really mind active camo by itself. At least a player with camo does not have an unfair health advantage which is what you got with overshields. Of course, they kinda have to include the camo ability since it has a long history of being used in both campaign and multiplayer going all the way back to Halo CE. I just wish they didn't include the radar jamming ability with it. I think if you want to include radar jamming then that should be a separate ability like it was in Halo 3. I'm also concerned about players being able to use both active camo and sprint together in Halo 4.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 10:19 (Reply to #19)
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BCyclops wrote:

For me, the radar jamming aspect was the worst thing about active camo. It messes up everybody's radar, teammates and enemies alike. So, I'm disappointed to see that part of it returning. I don't really mind active camo by itself. At least a player with camo does not have an unfair health advantage which is what you got with overshields. Of course, they kinda have to include the camo ability since it has a long history of being used in both campaign and multiplayer going all the way back to Halo CE. I just wish they didn't include the radar jamming ability with it. I think if you want to include radar jamming then that should be a separate ability like it was in Halo 3. I'm also concerned about players being able to use both active camo and sprint together in Halo 4.

I haven't seen any good video of someone sprinting or even walking with AC on. The issue underlined may be moot.

I really liked the separate Radar Jammer in Halo 3 but it ain't happening, so I guess we should like the Radar Jammer effect giving away an AC player. How well it gives away position is another story. Seems like it isn't quite as good at that as it is REACH.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 12:12
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OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:

DEEP_NNN wrote:

 

If a game offers legitimate capabilities to everyone, they are always fair. I.E. The noob-combo in Halo 2 was condemned by some and hailed by others. It was as intended and not some squirrely glitch. No advantage given or taken. No problem.

People like me are so terrible at lining a Sniper kill that using AC would not be an issue. They are not the problem. It's the skilled player doing the same thing that requires extra Team co-ordination to counter. It's painful when it happens but I am filled with glee when we call out the AC Sniper's position and somebody on the team nails him.

 

Not if they are game breaking. Just because they were put in the game by the developers doesn't mean they are being used as intended. Jetpacks break maps. So does camo-sniping. By the logic bolded above, the same could be true for hiding outside the map after building a lead. Everyone can possibly get outside the map and it's not a glitch, so it's the opposing team's fault they can't counter right?

We could debate that all day but I choose not to. The rule of thumb I use follows what the developer intends and not what comes about by accident. If they say they don't like it because it was unintended then I go with their call.

I.E. Bungie actually said they thought of Super Bouncing as cheating or unsportsmanlike behavior. I seem to remember they said the same thing about button glitches and made attempts to eliminate some of them. Remember the infinite sword lunge/sniper combo they patched out of Halo 2? Bungie fixed a hole in Valhalla's beta map too. Bungie/343i also tries to fix glitchable maps too.

People can talk about Jetpacks and other AA's being game breaking in their opinion but without developer support, that's all it is, opinion. So I'm not saying you can't have your opinion on the matter. You can but I hope to not hear it being said to anyone who uses legitimate game features legitimately.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 12:38 (Reply to #21)
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DEEP_NNN wrote:

 

People can talk about Jetpacks and other AA's being game breaking in their opinion but without developer support, that's all it is, opinion. So I'm not saying you can't have your opinion on the matter. You can but I hope to not hear it being said to anyone who uses legitimate game features legitimately.

 

Ah, so the developer's opinion trumps all huh?  Interesting.  So Bungie's opinion of full bloom was correct according to them.  So was 343's opinion of 85% bloom.  Which "opinion" is the most "correct"?  Not to mention 343's nerfing of armor lock and camo.  Were they more correct than Bungie or was Bungie more correct?  Most of these developers rarely play the game once it's released.  How can they form "correct" opinions if they don't even play the game or play enough to encounter said problems?

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:10 (Reply to #22)
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OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:

DEEP_NNN wrote:

 

People can talk about Jetpacks and other AA's being game breaking in their opinion but without developer support, that's all it is, opinion. So I'm not saying you can't have your opinion on the matter. You can but I hope to not hear it being said to anyone who uses legitimate game features legitimately.

 

Ah, so the developer's opinion trumps all huh?  Interesting.  So Bungie's opinion of full bloom was correct according to them.  So was 343's opinion of 85% bloom.  Which "opinion" is the most "correct"?  Not to mention 343's nerfing of armor lock and camo.  Were they more correct than Bungie or was Bungie more correct?  Most of these developers rarely play the game once it's released.  How can they form "correct" opinions if they don't even play the game or play enough to encounter said problems?

For the most part yes for the underlined.

When Bungie was the developer in charge of REACH, the call was theirs. After 343i took over, the call switched to them. There was no right or wrong situation with bloom. It was choice.

The Bloom question was left unanswered for the most part by 343i. They were experimenting and some of the experiment was accepted and some wasn't. ZB never got any kind of wide acceptance but it was a possibility. I think it only exists in MLG now. 85% was acceptable to a greater percentage of the MM population while quite likely an even larger number wanted to stay with full bloom (Vanilla). Bleed through was willingly being accepted by lots of people in spite of the glitches and it was ultimately removed because of people like me talking directly to them (343i) and proving it was glitchy. (Not including MLG playlist settings which negated the effect.)

Those last two sentences of yours. If you follow that train of thought it will always take you to the point where someone who has statistically higher skill will say their opinion is the only opinion that counts. These games are made for the widest possible audience and not the best or worst skilled players. While developers do make mistakes, they choose how the game should work. It doesn't matter how good they play. Indeed, they use highly skilled testers all of the time and it's their job to be the kind of asshole we all hate in MM and to try and break it. I read Frankie reminding someone of that yet again on NeoGAF within the last few days.

Anyway, I probably created more discussion than I wanted to so I'll stop there.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:54 (Reply to #23)
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DEEP_NNN wrote:

For the most part yes for the underlined.

When Bungie was the developer in charge of REACH, the call was theirs. After 343i took over, the call switched to them. There was no right or wrong situation with bloom. It was choice.

The Bloom question was left unanswered for the most part by 343i. They were experimenting and some of the experiment was accepted and some wasn't. ZB never got any kind of wide acceptance but it was a possibility. I think it only exists in MLG now. 85% was acceptable to a greater percentage of the MM population while quite likely an even larger number wanted to stay with full bloom (Vanilla). Bleed through was willingly being accepted by lots of people in spite of the glitches and it was ultimately removed because of people like me talking directly to them (343i) and proving it was glitchy. (Not including MLG playlist settings which negated the effect.)

Those last two sentences of yours. If you follow that train of thought it will always take you to the point where someone who has statistically higher skill will say their opinion is the only opinion that counts. These games are made for the widest possible audience and not the best or worst skilled players. While developers do make mistakes, they choose how the game should work. It doesn't matter how good they play. Indeed, they use highly skilled testers all of the time and it's their job to be the kind of asshole we all hate in MM and to try and break it. I read Frankie reminding someone of that yet again on NeoGAF within the last few days.

Anyway, I probably created more discussion than I wanted to so I'll stop there.

 

Regarding the bold:  Therein lies the problem.  How the developers choose the game should work and how it realistically works are two separate entities.  Developing them so they intertwine is a challenge.  Just because a developer includes it in the game doesn't imply it's for the greater good.  That's circular logic.  It's in the game because the developer put it there.  If it's in the game, it's legitimate.  

Regarding the underlined:  I never mentioned anything about skill.  That's your own statement.  I made reference to the developers rarely or never playing the game.  It's not on account of skill, but encountering the problems people vocalize and experiencing it themselves.  

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 14:31 (Reply to #24)
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OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:

DEEP_NNN wrote:

For the most part yes for the underlined.

When Bungie was the developer in charge of REACH, the call was theirs. After 343i took over, the call switched to them. There was no right or wrong situation with bloom. It was choice.

The Bloom question was left unanswered for the most part by 343i. They were experimenting and some of the experiment was accepted and some wasn't. ZB never got any kind of wide acceptance but it was a possibility. I think it only exists in MLG now. 85% was acceptable to a greater percentage of the MM population while quite likely an even larger number wanted to stay with full bloom (Vanilla). Bleed through was willingly being accepted by lots of people in spite of the glitches and it was ultimately removed because of people like me talking directly to them (343i) and proving it was glitchy. (Not including MLG playlist settings which negated the effect.)

Those last two sentences of yours. If you follow that train of thought it will always take you to the point where someone who has statistically higher skill will say their opinion is the only opinion that counts. These games are made for the widest possible audience and not the best or worst skilled players. While developers do make mistakes, they choose how the game should work. It doesn't matter how good they play. Indeed, they use highly skilled testers all of the time and it's their job to be the kind of asshole we all hate in MM and to try and break it. I read Frankie reminding someone of that yet again on NeoGAF within the last few days.

Anyway, I probably created more discussion than I wanted to so I'll stop there.

 

Regarding the bold:  Therein lies the problem.  How the developers choose the game should work and how it realistically works are two separate entities.  Developing them so they intertwine is a challenge.  Just because a developer includes it in the game doesn't imply it's for the greater good.  That's circular logic.  It's in the game because the developer put it there.  If it's in the game, it's legitimate.  

It does occur that developer intended features do not work in the wild as expected. I.E. AL wasn't known to allow glitching through walls and floors. So AL is perfectly acceptable to use as intended but not for glitches. It's important to note that Bungie chose to remove AL from a lot of MM playlists because of the glitch. 343i chose to put a TU modified AL back in while adding more Killzones. Bro-Slayer had a similar glitch and it too was removed from MM.

OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:
Regarding the underlined:  I never mentioned anything about skill.  That's your own statement.  I made reference to the developers rarely or never playing the game.  It's not on account of skill, but encountering the problems people vocalize and experiencing it themselves. 
You did not mention skill and I did not say that you did. Perhaps I presumed too much but the logic of them not playing enough, which I do not believe for a second by the way, always leads to the next step which is, the developer is not amongst the highly skilled and therefore does not know what is good for the game. I've seen this happen over and over on forums. That's why I said what I did. Apologies if you were not thinking of it like that.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 23:20 (Reply to #25)
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DEEP_NNN wrote:

OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:

DEEP_NNN wrote:

For the most part yes for the underlined.

When Bungie was the developer in charge of REACH, the call was theirs. After 343i took over, the call switched to them. There was no right or wrong situation with bloom. It was choice.

The Bloom question was left unanswered for the most part by 343i. They were experimenting and some of the experiment was accepted and some wasn't. ZB never got any kind of wide acceptance but it was a possibility. I think it only exists in MLG now. 85% was acceptable to a greater percentage of the MM population while quite likely an even larger number wanted to stay with full bloom (Vanilla). Bleed through was willingly being accepted by lots of people in spite of the glitches and it was ultimately removed because of people like me talking directly to them (343i) and proving it was glitchy. (Not including MLG playlist settings which negated the effect.)

Those last two sentences of yours. If you follow that train of thought it will always take you to the point where someone who has statistically higher skill will say their opinion is the only opinion that counts. These games are made for the widest possible audience and not the best or worst skilled players. While developers do make mistakes, they choose how the game should work. It doesn't matter how good they play. Indeed, they use highly skilled testers all of the time and it's their job to be the kind of asshole we all hate in MM and to try and break it. I read Frankie reminding someone of that yet again on NeoGAF within the last few days.

Anyway, I probably created more discussion than I wanted to so I'll stop there.

 

Regarding the bold:  Therein lies the problem.  How the developers choose the game should work and how it realistically works are two separate entities.  Developing them so they intertwine is a challenge.  Just because a developer includes it in the game doesn't imply it's for the greater good.  That's circular logic.  It's in the game because the developer put it there.  If it's in the game, it's legitimate.  

It does occur that developer intended features do not work in the wild as expected. I.E. AL wasn't known to allow glitching through walls and floors. So AL is perfectly acceptable to use as intended but not for glitches. It's important to note that Bungie chose to remove AL from a lot of MM playlists because of the glitch. 343i chose to put a TU modified AL back in while adding more Killzones. Bro-Slayer had a similar glitch and it too was removed from MM.

OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:
Regarding the underlined:  I never mentioned anything about skill.  That's your own statement.  I made reference to the developers rarely or never playing the game.  It's not on account of skill, but encountering the problems people vocalize and experiencing it themselves. 
You did not mention skill and I did not say that you did. Perhaps I presumed too much but the logic of them not playing enough, which I do not believe for a second by the way, always leads to the next step which is, the developer is not amongst the highly skilled and therefore does not know what is good for the game. I've seen this happen over and over on forums. That's why I said what I did. Apologies if you were not thinking of it like that.

 

Could also be your biases showing through.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 23:34 (Reply to #26)
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Dixon_Tufar wrote:

DEEP_NNN wrote:

OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:

DEEP_NNN wrote:

For the most part yes for the underlined.

When Bungie was the developer in charge of REACH, the call was theirs. After 343i took over, the call switched to them. There was no right or wrong situation with bloom. It was choice.

The Bloom question was left unanswered for the most part by 343i. They were experimenting and some of the experiment was accepted and some wasn't. ZB never got any kind of wide acceptance but it was a possibility. I think it only exists in MLG now. 85% was acceptable to a greater percentage of the MM population while quite likely an even larger number wanted to stay with full bloom (Vanilla). Bleed through was willingly being accepted by lots of people in spite of the glitches and it was ultimately removed because of people like me talking directly to them (343i) and proving it was glitchy. (Not including MLG playlist settings which negated the effect.)

Those last two sentences of yours. If you follow that train of thought it will always take you to the point where someone who has statistically higher skill will say their opinion is the only opinion that counts. These games are made for the widest possible audience and not the best or worst skilled players. While developers do make mistakes, they choose how the game should work. It doesn't matter how good they play. Indeed, they use highly skilled testers all of the time and it's their job to be the kind of asshole we all hate in MM and to try and break it. I read Frankie reminding someone of that yet again on NeoGAF within the last few days.

Anyway, I probably created more discussion than I wanted to so I'll stop there.

 

Regarding the bold:  Therein lies the problem.  How the developers choose the game should work and how it realistically works are two separate entities.  Developing them so they intertwine is a challenge.  Just because a developer includes it in the game doesn't imply it's for the greater good.  That's circular logic.  It's in the game because the developer put it there.  If it's in the game, it's legitimate.  

It does occur that developer intended features do not work in the wild as expected. I.E. AL wasn't known to allow glitching through walls and floors. So AL is perfectly acceptable to use as intended but not for glitches. It's important to note that Bungie chose to remove AL from a lot of MM playlists because of the glitch. 343i chose to put a TU modified AL back in while adding more Killzones. Bro-Slayer had a similar glitch and it too was removed from MM.

OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:
Regarding the underlined:  I never mentioned anything about skill.  That's your own statement.  I made reference to the developers rarely or never playing the game.  It's not on account of skill, but encountering the problems people vocalize and experiencing it themselves. 
You did not mention skill and I did not say that you did. Perhaps I presumed too much but the logic of them not playing enough, which I do not believe for a second by the way, always leads to the next step which is, the developer is not amongst the highly skilled and therefore does not know what is good for the game. I've seen this happen over and over on forums. That's why I said what I did. Apologies if you were not thinking of it like that.

 

Could also be your biases showing through.

 

haha...which one are you talking too?

 

 

80

Tue, 09/11/2012 - 06:01 (Reply to #27)
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wamam87 wrote:

Dixon_Tufar wrote:

 

Could also be your biases showing through.

 

haha...which one are you talking too?

80

I'm wondering which of the many biases I have that it is? I got a bucket of them.smiley

Tired of typing on this matter though.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:05
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Here is some video Bravo posted of Camo. The Camo fades as you sprint but recovers quickly. I do think ability lasts too long and recharges too fast from this video.

Also, I think I notice what's mentioned above about the blue dots - even though it's hard to tell from the poor video quality. 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOEXgaVVxEg&list=UUq7AJTe2LVeTN_vanfZ5bkw&index=1&feature=plcp

 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:27
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I was hoping to catch a glimpse of a non-Camo player encountering a Camoed(sp?) player just to see what my jammed radar look like. I may have missed it, these guys move so fast.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:28 (Reply to #30)
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Quadricept wrote:

I was hoping to catch a glimpse of a non-Camo player encountering a Camoed(sp?) player just to see what the jammed rader looked like. I may have missed it, these guys move so fast.

It was in there but the image quality was too terrible for even a partial opinion. There must be some better footage somewhere with Camo in it.

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