Frank O'Connor Ramblings - significant, or not

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Wed, 04/18/2012 - 13:42
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More.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 14:39
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Wed, 04/18/2012 - 15:50
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I think it shows there will be useful default loadouts that would be thought of as a standard weapons set and AA for a map/gametype. As we rank up we will unlock weapons and AAs so that we can customize loadouts to our own preferences.

At the beginning of each game, instead of worrying about our starting weapons, we'll have what we want and can get right into the action. Instead of scrambling to ditch an AR for a BR, we'll be ready to fight.

343i has hinted to the fact that there will be a lot of weapons in the H4 sandbox. I'm thinking we'll have a lot of choices on how to set up our loadouts. Perhaps this system of unlocking weapons is also a way to encourage people to try different combos.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 18:16
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As long as they give me a semi-capable weapon as I start out at low ranks (pistol), I'll be okay.  They better not start people out with just an AR.  I hate automatic weapons with a passion.  angry

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 21:30 (Reply to #35)
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OMGaLaserPewPew wrote:

As long as they give me a semi-capable weapon as I start out at low ranks (pistol), I'll be okay.  They better not start people out with just an AR.  I hate automatic weapons with a passion.  angry

 

http://www.topcultured.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/internet-high-five.jpg

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 14:42
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More added.

Tue, 05/01/2012 - 15:14
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Nice update and comment by Frank about vehicles "being torn apart by breezes and harsh language".

Since I do not particularly enjoy BTB, I have been extremely disappointed by the lack of any good 4v4 maps with vehicles in Reach. Basically the only map that currently fits this description would be Tempest. I'm hoping for a couple of good smaller vehicle maps like Standoff for Halo 4, but I won't hold my breath.

However, if they can at least make the hogs not so susceptible to sniper and DMR/BR fire, that would be appreciated. I might even appreciate some decent driving lanes and hogs that don't flip going over the slightest bump.

Wed, 05/02/2012 - 15:46
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Thanks for amalgamating the info, Deep.

The line of "Don't worry, you can customize anything you don't like" seems like a big cop out. Sure, I could technically customize Reach to remove all the crappy ideas they filled the game with, but if I want to play matchmaking, I'm stuck with Reach in all of its glory.

I hope they don't use this to avoid taking responsibilty for really testing their game, like they did with using Forge World as an excuse to not make many real multiplayer maps.

Wed, 05/02/2012 - 18:55 (Reply to #39)
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Tristan wrote:

Thanks for amalgamating the info, Deep.

The line of "Don't worry, you can customize anything you don't like" seems like a big cop out. Sure, I could technically customize Reach to remove all the crappy ideas they filled the game with, but if I want to play matchmaking, I'm stuck with Reach in all of its glory.

I hope they don't use this to avoid taking responsibilty for really testing their game, like they did with using Forge World as an excuse to not make many real multiplayer maps.

I absolutely understand people's reservations.

The most recent time I was bitten by the "don't worry" bug was when 343i said Vanilla was not going away in MM. Little did I suspect that really meant "all but go away".

I love all the Halo games so far. Even though I know there will be things that I will be pissed about, I am confident I will be happily playing Halo 4 two years from release.smiley

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 10:58
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Thu, 05/03/2012 - 13:16
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That 's a pretty good summary of what I understand it to be. It'll be like Frankie said, experienced players will likely pick something else.

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 14:08
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Oops, I accidentally bumped the trackpad and flagged Deep's post above as offensive. Apparently there's no way to unflag it.

 

My biggest concern is still the randomized power weapons with the intent to destroy the "big picture" strategic structure of the game and make it all about small picture encounters. I just had an idea. How about instead of randomizing the weapons, they just make the invisible "big picture" structure more explicit? Put the weapons and powerups on set timers like H:CE and then put something in the HUD to announce that the rockets or OS are about to spawn. That way everyone knows what's going on so that seasoned players don't have as huge of an advantage (and it won't change the gameplay for seasoned players anyway since they would already know the times regardless), but at the same time it would preserve the structure of the game rather than randomizing it.

Now, instead of Blue knowing the rockets are up and Red having no clue, both teams would know, and you'd have the meta-game come into play where each team uses this info to outsmart the other team (whereas outsmarting is going to be moot in a randomized setting). Basically, rather than dumbing down the game through randomness, it would up the gameplay of the lesser team by providing them with info that could easily be acquired if they took the time to learn the weapon times. At a high enough level the meta-game takes over anyway, this would just accelerate that.

 

It makes no sense how they insist on a Rock Paper Scissors model for weapon balance (where the outcome of a battle is mostly about who has the right tool for the job) rather than an equalizer model (like H:CE, where the other weapons had advantages in various situations, but a good pistoler could hold his own in most encounters, so the outcome was more about outplaying the other guy), but then they want to make it random / unpredictable which weapons you'll be encountering at any given moment thanks to ordnance weapons and loadouts. That wouldn't be so bad within an "equalizer" weapon model, where you had a good chance at overcoming another weapon's advantage through pure skill, but it's going to be downright frustrating with the Rock Paper Scissors model. "Oh, surprise, he just happened to be sitting there with a shotgun and there's nothing I could do by the time it was too late. How was I supposed to guess he'd be there?" If it pans out anything like this, it's going to be a chaotic, frustrating mess.

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 14:11 (Reply to #43)
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Tristan wrote:

Oops, I accidentally bumped the trackpad and flagged Deep's post above as offensive. Apparently there's no way to unflag it.

 

My biggest concern is still the randomized power weapons with the intent to destroy the "big picture" strategic structure of the game and make it all about small picture encounters. I just had an idea. How about instead of randomizing the weapons, they just make the invisible "big picture" structure more explicit? Put the weapons and powerups on set timers like H:CE and then put something in the HUD to announce that the rockets or OS are about to spawn. That way everyone knows what's going on so that seasoned players don't have as huge of an advantage (and it won't change the gameplay for seasoned players anyway since they would already know the times regardless), but at the same time it would preserve the structure of the game rather than randomizing it.

Now, instead of Blue knowing the rockets are up and Red having no clue, both teams would know, and you'd have the meta-game come into play where each team uses this info to outsmart the other team (whereas outsmarting is going to be moot in a randomized setting). Basically, rather than dumbing down the game through randomness, it would up the gameplay of the lesser team by providing them with info that could easily be acquired if they took the time to learn the weapon times. At a high enough level the meta-game takes over anyway, this would just accelerate that.

I'm not quite understanding it the way you are but that is okay. It will take a lot more reveals before we come to understand the power weapon drops fully. Certainly, the delivery system changes depending on the game type and playlist.

I understood that in one scenario, once the power weapon was delivered, both teams knew what and where. Prior to delivery, one team might know what is coming and set up a trap. That would be an interesting mechanic.

If a competitive body such as MLG were to exclude this type of sandbox element, I don't believe it would be nearly as objectionable as changing speeds etc.

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 15:27 (Reply to #44)
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Tristan wrote:

...How about instead of randomizing the weapons, they just make the invisible "big picture" structure more explicit? Put the weapons and powerups on set timers like H:CE and then put something in the HUD to announce that the rockets or OS are about to spawn. That way everyone knows what's going on so that seasoned players don't have as huge of an advantage (and it won't change the gameplay for seasoned players anyway since they would already know the times regardless), but at the same time it would preserve the structure of the game rather than randomizing it...

Actually this is exactly the way the ordinance system has been described to operate in previous discussions by 343. I believe this type of a drop system was discussed in the latest podcast. Both teams are alerted by HUD indicators a weapon drop is about to occur and where it will be located.

Since that time, we've learned there will be some variability to the drop system, but the variance will be determined by gametype. Apparently there is a lot to the ordinance system left to be discussed.

 

Thu, 05/03/2012 - 15:24
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I saw that too (one team knowing before the other, setting a trap). Seems like that's the kind of thing that would only work on brand new players like Louis Wu (who did the write up with that info). After 2-3 games, if you know the other team has known about the rocket drop before it came up on your screen, then obviously they're going to either already be there and have the rockets or they'll be baiting them. It just sounds like yet another gimmick that tries to fix something that wasn't broken and only introduces multiple new problems in practice, just like Halo 2's weapon spawn system.

Mon, 05/07/2012 - 07:11
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How will this "drop" systemm work for maps that are entirely indoors? Or am I just imagining the delivery system all wrong?

Mon, 05/07/2012 - 07:25 (Reply to #47)
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Mjp2519 wrote:

How will this "drop" systemm work for maps that are entirely indoors? Or am I just imagining the delivery system all wrong?

I haven't read anything on that point yet.

I am sort of imagining something like Colossus where cubes fall down silos.

Mon, 05/07/2012 - 14:58
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Well, we are playing inside of a ship. I imagine to follow some sort of canon, they all are being dropped from a ceiling somewhere....inside the giant craft.

Mon, 05/07/2012 - 15:41
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More, including comments on visible ranks.

Wed, 08/01/2012 - 08:20
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Bump for those who want to review the OP content.

I don't want to to sticky it again. Some things are available from more official sources.

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