Harvest is most assuredly BTB. Just because it doesn't show up in the playlist all the time doesn't make it not true. It's one of those that 'can' work for 4v4 up to 8v8. Same is true for Exile, Ragnarok, and Settler. It isn't exclusive BTB, but it's an option, so it is counted.
With that logic, any map can be a btb map as they all 'can' work for btb (remember btb on Countdown in Reach?). Might as well put Abandon and Adrift in the btb playlist too.
But let's go ahead and accept that Harvest is a btb map even though it plays horribly, that brings the total up to 10-11 with the new maps to be released in April. Now let's look at all the smaller maps:
Haven
Adrift
Complex
Abandon
Solace
Harvest
Landfall
Monolith
Skyline
Shutout
Relay
Simplex
Settler
Scythe
Dispatch
That's 15. And I didn't even count Ragnarok as part of the list using the above logic (or even Longbow since it's an option for snipers). So what's the minimum requirement of smaller maps before btb is allowed to get some?
Yeah last night I was paying more attention and I saw meltdown and vortex in the list, you guys are right they just aren't voting for them. But if I'm seeing right I have played on all the original BTB maps and I bought the map pass last night so looking forward to seeing these others.
If you made a game, wouldn't you put what you think the most populated playlist would be at the top of a selection list?
So then why aren't they rearranged then? I don't have a current list in front of me, but is there any method to their madness when organizing the list? Other than 'willy nilly.' I assume it's grouped by type.
There is some influence on the placement and how populated the lists are. That's just human nature. Someone is much more likely to play something at the top than scroll down to choose something else unless they are looking for a certain gametype. Also, the Challenges greatly influence the populations for particular playlists. You'll see BTB and Infinity slayer usually at the high end, but right after them you'll see a playlist that is easy or geared towards a certain challenge right up there with them.
If you made a game, wouldn't you put what you think the most populated playlist would be at the top of a selection list?
So then why aren't they rearranged then? I don't have a current list in front of me, but is there any method to their madness when organizing the list? Other than 'willy nilly.' I assume it's grouped by type.
There is some influence on the placement and how populated the lists are. That's just human nature. Someone is much more likely to play something at the top than scroll down to choose something else unless they are looking for a certain gametype. Also, the Challenges greatly influence the populations for particular playlists. You'll see BTB and Infinity slayer usually at the high end, but right after them you'll see a playlist that is easy or geared towards a certain challenge right up there with them.
There doesn't appear to be any strong relationship between menu position and population. People choose what they like. Some choices are temporary and some are long term.
Playlist order in Halo 4 GUI / Playlist by decending population
Playlist order in Halo 4 GUI / Playlist by decending population
Infinity Slayer
4700
Big Team Infinity Slayer
7664
Big Team Infinity Slayer
7664
Infinity Slayer
4700
Majestic Team DLC
448
Team Action Sack
4585
Majestic FFA DLC
198
SWAT
3205
Extraction
1808
Dominion
2633
Dominion
2633
Extraction
1808
Regicide
758
Capture The Flag
1360
Capture The Flag
1360
Flood
1009
Team Action Sack
4585
Team Snipers
999
Team Throwdown
513
Grifball
889
Team Doubles
868
Team Doubles
868
Team Objective
220
Regicide
758
Team Snipers
999
Team Throwdown
513
Grifball
889
Majestic Team DLC
448
Flood
1009
Team Objective
220
SWAT
3205
Majestic FFA DLC
198
The saddest part of this is at the bottom of the list on the population side.
The "competitive" playlist, Team Throwdown, that supposedly so many Halo players wanted is an embarrassement when looking at population. Then the two playlists featuring NEW maps - just a week old - might as well have vultures and tubleweed drifting through.
Yes, Team Objective is down there too, but it's never popular...lol
I remember when new maps were a big deal and everybody downloaded them and were excited to play. Now, it seems not to be the case. I do realize the maps will show up in the other playlists, but I just think this is a sad statement about the Halo population.
The saddest part of this is at the bottom of the list on the population side.
The "competitive" playlist, Team Throwdown, that supposedly so many Halo players wanted is an embarrassement when looking at population. Then the two playlists featuring NEW maps - just a week old - might as well have vultures and tubleweed drifting through.
Yes, Team Objective is down there too, but it's never popular...lol
I remember when new maps were a big deal and everybody downloaded them and were excited to play. Now, it seems not to be the case. I do realize the maps will show up in the other playlists, but I just think this is a sad statement about the Halo population.
The numbers overall are depressing.
I'm not swinging my pom poms here but the population doubles in the evening. Still bad though.
March break, let's see what happens. Castle Map pack, let's see what happens. Community FFA maps, let's see what happens. April CSR playlist, let's see what happens. Schools out for summer break, let's see what happens.
I don't expect miracles but these things often affect population positively.
At this point I think Halo 4 is only going to be an Americas game. Outside of the Americas' peak, there aren't many people to play with, which causes more people to stop playing MM.
The saddest part of this is at the bottom of the list on the population side.
The "competitive" playlist, Team Throwdown, that supposedly so many Halo players wanted is an embarrassement when looking at population. Then the two playlists featuring NEW maps - just a week old - might as well have vultures and tubleweed drifting through.
Yes, Team Objective is down there too, but it's never popular...lol
I remember when new maps were a big deal and everybody downloaded them and were excited to play. Now, it seems not to be the case. I do realize the maps will show up in the other playlists, but I just think this is a sad statement about the Halo population.
The numbers overall are depressing.
I suspect competitive playlists are too different from "standard" MM offerings to be successful on a large scale. The same was true with Reach; jumping between Team Slayer, Super Slayer, and MLG was like playing three different games. Player traits need to be the same across the board, save for some action sack/customs non-sense.
Even within the competitive community, there seems to a divide in regard to what the starting weapon should be. I would guess there are some people who would like to play in TTD, but are holding out for DMR or LR starts.
The Noble and Defiant playlists in Reach didn't get much play beyond their first week in MM either. Halo DLC is a strange thing. I have to give 343 credit for better DLC integration into regular playlists, as it was virtually non-existant in Reach without searching with a full party.
lets all be clear on something as well. These maps were not developed in response to the current popularity of playlists. The maps were listed, story boarded, designed well before H4 launched, maybe not totally finished and polished, but the majority of work had been done.
No way they could have designed, created, polished and play tested (LOL like that would happen on a scale large enough to have a good sample of players) and passed play testing (xbox live certification) in 4 months. It is clear to me the design for H4 was medium to large scale encounters with a premium on visuals, not balanced game play. Not to mention 343/MS decided to outsource the creation of the maps instead of keeping it in house.
To be fair, CA might have designed exactly what 343/MS requested, so it might be unfair that I am blaming them. But it does not take away from my overall disappointment.
I don't think the maps are bad I just think Infinity gametypes just aren't that fun for old school players. We took alot of pride in knowing weapon spawns time, hot spots, spawn trapping and now with Infinity you never can get into the flow of the game. Every map pack and even maps on release aways get hammered for sucking, but what happens is most of us get comfortable on the maps and we find how our playstyle works best and we start to really like the maps.
What is with all the negativity here. if you don't like the game, move on
Playing Halo since CE, seen changes with every new game in the series, some for the good some not so much for my play style. I play Halo because it offers me a break from reality and a chance to noobs and pro gamers from all over the world. With that being said, you can find me on Requiem. Peace out!
What is with all the negativity here. if you don't like the game, move on
It's funny, I barely know the maps and I haven't thought people were over QQ'ing once. I think being disgruntled stems from a love and passion for the game and I'll admit maybe a little nostalgia. No greater feeling even in Halo 4 than the first few seconds of a map weapon in hand moving forward, I truly regret that I stopped playing after Halo 3 now. Right now I'm playing with my girlfriend and not taking it seriously at all but at some point unless Halo 5 does drop soon I suspect I will get more serious about it and at that point I suspect I'll understand all the reasons people are disgruntled more clearly. I do think that's the key, the difference between if you're a casual player or a more serious player, and there's nothing wrong with either! :)
... and at that point I suspect I'll understand all the reasons people are disgruntled more clearly.
And what you'll find is a good game that just does nothing very well, has glaring holes in all parts (except spartan ops, which, IMO is the least likable part of the game), and a community that is very fickle.
... and at that point I suspect I'll understand all the reasons people are disgruntled more clearly.
And what you'll find is a good game that just does nothing very well, has glaring holes in all parts (except spartan ops, which, IMO is the least likable part of the game), and a community that is very fickle.
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Teasingly close to greatness in a few areas, pretty passable in a lot of others, which adds up to some disappointment and discontentment, especially when compared to what it could have been or what it was in previous titles.
... and at that point I suspect I'll understand all the reasons people are disgruntled more clearly.
And what you'll find is a good game that just does nothing very well, has glaring holes in all parts (except spartan ops, which, IMO is the least likable part of the game), and a community that is very fickle.
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Teasingly close to greatness in a few areas, pretty passable in a lot of others, which adds up to some disappointment and discontentment, especially when compared to what it could have been or what it was in previous titles.
Also it seemed last November like all the issues were small and fixable, this was a new developer, and there was hope that they would try hard and within a few months we would have a great game. Fast forward 4 months later and progress has been glacially slow and it's looking more and more like they're not going to fix it. So people are getting frustrated. If H4 ends here it's worse than Reach, and lots of people hated Reach.
... and at that point I suspect I'll understand all the reasons people are disgruntled more clearly.
And what you'll find is a good game that just does nothing very well, has glaring holes in all parts (except spartan ops, which, IMO is the least likable part of the game), and a community that is very fickle.
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Teasingly close to greatness in a few areas, pretty passable in a lot of others, which adds up to some disappointment and discontentment, especially when compared to what it could have been or what it was in previous titles.
Also it seemed last November like all the issues were small and fixable, this was a new developer, and there was hope that they would try hard and within a few months we would have a great game. Fast forward 4 months later and progress has been glacially slow and it's looking more and more like they're not going to fix it. So people are getting frustrated. If H4 ends here it's worse than Reach, and lots of people hated Reach.
Whoa there. It can't get worse than pre-patch Reach. At least we have some maps from the developer, although I kind of miss Android.
Whoa there. It can't get worse than pre-patch Reach. At least we have some maps from the developer, although I kind of miss Android.
Most things in H4 don't work properly (file shares, lobby, etc) and at least pre-patch Reach had a ranked playlist. Also, while the Reach maps weren't great, they were at least designed with 4v4 in mind. H4 was clearly designed with Big Team and chaos in mind, probably in that order.
... and at that point I suspect I'll understand all the reasons people are disgruntled more clearly.
And what you'll find is a good game that just does nothing very well, has glaring holes in all parts (except spartan ops, which, IMO is the least likable part of the game), and a community that is very fickle.
Thought it was a fun interview and one man's opinion. I mean, someone clearly so imbalanced shouldn't be hired by 343 to be a map designer, I can tell you that much (kidding of course).
With that logic, any map can be a btb map as they all 'can' work for btb (remember btb on Countdown in Reach?). Might as well put Abandon and Adrift in the btb playlist too.
But let's go ahead and accept that Harvest is a btb map even though it plays horribly, that brings the total up to 10-11 with the new maps to be released in April. Now let's look at all the smaller maps:
Haven
Adrift
Complex
Abandon
Solace
Harvest
Landfall
Monolith
Skyline
Shutout
Relay
Simplex
Settler
Scythe
Dispatch
That's 15. And I didn't even count Ragnarok as part of the list using the above logic (or even Longbow since it's an option for snipers). So what's the minimum requirement of smaller maps before btb is allowed to get some?
Yeah last night I was paying more attention and I saw meltdown and vortex in the list, you guys are right they just aren't voting for them. But if I'm seeing right I have played on all the original BTB maps and I bought the map pass last night so looking forward to seeing these others.
So then why aren't they rearranged then? I don't have a current list in front of me, but is there any method to their madness when organizing the list? Other than 'willy nilly.' I assume it's grouped by type.
There is some influence on the placement and how populated the lists are. That's just human nature. Someone is much more likely to play something at the top than scroll down to choose something else unless they are looking for a certain gametype. Also, the Challenges greatly influence the populations for particular playlists. You'll see BTB and Infinity slayer usually at the high end, but right after them you'll see a playlist that is easy or geared towards a certain challenge right up there with them.
Playlist order in Halo 4 GUI / Playlist by decending population
The saddest part of this is at the bottom of the list on the population side.
The "competitive" playlist, Team Throwdown, that supposedly so many Halo players wanted is an embarrassement when looking at population. Then the two playlists featuring NEW maps - just a week old - might as well have vultures and tubleweed drifting through.
Yes, Team Objective is down there too, but it's never popular...lol
I remember when new maps were a big deal and everybody downloaded them and were excited to play. Now, it seems not to be the case. I do realize the maps will show up in the other playlists, but I just think this is a sad statement about the Halo population.
The numbers overall are depressing.
March break, let's see what happens.
Castle Map pack, let's see what happens.
Community FFA maps, let's see what happens.
April CSR playlist, let's see what happens.
Schools out for summer break, let's see what happens.
I don't expect miracles but these things often affect population positively.
At this point I think Halo 4 is only going to be an Americas game. Outside of the Americas' peak, there aren't many people to play with, which causes more people to stop playing MM.
I suspect competitive playlists are too different from "standard" MM offerings to be successful on a large scale. The same was true with Reach; jumping between Team Slayer, Super Slayer, and MLG was like playing three different games. Player traits need to be the same across the board, save for some action sack/customs non-sense.
Even within the competitive community, there seems to a divide in regard to what the starting weapon should be. I would guess there are some people who would like to play in TTD, but are holding out for DMR or LR starts.
The Noble and Defiant playlists in Reach didn't get much play beyond their first week in MM either. Halo DLC is a strange thing. I have to give 343 credit for better DLC integration into regular playlists, as it was virtually non-existant in Reach without searching with a full party.
lets all be clear on something as well. These maps were not developed in response to the current popularity of playlists. The maps were listed, story boarded, designed well before H4 launched, maybe not totally finished and polished, but the majority of work had been done.
No way they could have designed, created, polished and play tested (LOL like that would happen on a scale large enough to have a good sample of players) and passed play testing (xbox live certification) in 4 months. It is clear to me the design for H4 was medium to large scale encounters with a premium on visuals, not balanced game play. Not to mention 343/MS decided to outsource the creation of the maps instead of keeping it in house.
To be fair, CA might have designed exactly what 343/MS requested, so it might be unfair that I am blaming them. But it does not take away from my overall disappointment.
Ahh thanks, Deep, I know you had to do that by hand, or that site Dixon has been posting up. EIther way, nice to see. Comments and opinions to follow.
I don't think the maps are bad I just think Infinity gametypes just aren't that fun for old school players. We took alot of pride in knowing weapon spawns time, hot spots, spawn trapping and now with Infinity you never can get into the flow of the game. Every map pack and even maps on release aways get hammered for sucking, but what happens is most of us get comfortable on the maps and we find how our playstyle works best and we start to really like the maps.
What is with all the negativity here.gif "56")
. if you don't like the game, move on.gif "146")
Playing Halo since CE, seen changes with every new game in the series, some for the good some not so much for my play style. I play Halo because it offers me a break from reality and a chance to.gif "45")
noobs and pro gamers from all over the world. With that being said, you can find me on Requiem. Peace out!
It's funny, I barely know the maps and I haven't thought people were over QQ'ing once. I think being disgruntled stems from a love and passion for the game and I'll admit maybe a little nostalgia. No greater feeling even in Halo 4 than the first few seconds of a map weapon in hand moving forward, I truly regret that I stopped playing after Halo 3 now. Right now I'm playing with my girlfriend and not taking it seriously at all but at some point unless Halo 5 does drop soon I suspect I will get more serious about it and at that point I suspect I'll understand all the reasons people are disgruntled more clearly. I do think that's the key, the difference between if you're a casual player or a more serious player, and there's nothing wrong with either! :)
And what you'll find is a good game that just does nothing very well, has glaring holes in all parts (except spartan ops, which, IMO is the least likable part of the game), and a community that is very fickle.
Yeah, that's pretty much it. Teasingly close to greatness in a few areas, pretty passable in a lot of others, which adds up to some disappointment and discontentment, especially when compared to what it could have been or what it was in previous titles.
Also it seemed last November like all the issues were small and fixable, this was a new developer, and there was hope that they would try hard and within a few months we would have a great game. Fast forward 4 months later and progress has been glacially slow and it's looking more and more like they're not going to fix it. So people are getting frustrated. If H4 ends here it's worse than Reach, and lots of people hated Reach.
Whoa there. It can't get worse than pre-patch Reach. At least we have some maps from the developer, although I kind of miss Android.
Most things in H4 don't work properly (file shares, lobby, etc) and at least pre-patch Reach had a ranked playlist. Also, while the Reach maps weren't great, they were at least designed with 4v4 in mind. H4 was clearly designed with Big Team and chaos in mind, probably in that order.
Now I like khaos in theori.gif "21")
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/13/call-of-duty-red-orchestra-2-interview/
Thought it was a fun interview and one man's opinion. I mean, someone clearly so imbalanced shouldn't be hired by 343 to be a map designer, I can tell you that much (kidding of course).
I think he's got some very salient points.