Sherb I will put the replay up on my SF, it is an interesting incident, I was setting up to take you on the outside to put you between myself and fitzy and parcells. We were in the middle of quite a battle. You somehow seemed to slide towards the pits and were taking me with you. I got off the throttle let you go and rejoined the three way battle when you reappeared hit the side of Parcells who hit me and spun me, hit me again and somehow we all set off again without loosing any more places.
Sherb I will put the replay up on my SF, it is an interesting incident, I was setting up to take you on the outside to put you between myself and fitzy and parcells. We were in the middle of quite a battle. You somehow seemed to slide towards the pits and were taking me with you. I got off the throttle let you go and rejoined the three way battle when you reappeared hit the side of Parcells who hit me and spun me, hit me again and somehow we all set off again without loosing any more places.
I figured you were going to leave enough room for me to get back on the track, but I didn't see Parcells try slipping in to take advantage of the situation (not that I blame him, I probably would've been looking to do the same). That would certainly explain the contact I thought I felt as soon as I rejoined (or rather almost rejoined). I was making some split decisions as to rejoin, or throw the race away and go down pit road. Not seeing Parcells there I opted to rejoin and minimize my losses. Didn't pan out so well in the end.
We'll see you guys again next week. I'll try to bring a little less excitement next time.
Getting taken out is part of racing. Happens IRL with the pros so to expect incident free racing with a bunch of posers is unrealistic. I've spun out countless guys, and I've been spun out countless times.
When it happens several races in a row it can become a little too frustrating to take, and I will take my leave so I can cool off before I say something I'll regret.
In scheduled events like this, tension is already higher than a normal pick-up game so you have to be even more aware that accidents happen. It sucks when you practice all week for an event only to be taken out right at the start, but it's a reality of racing. Shit happens.
To be honest I thought you were away down the pit lane LOL, it's one of those things when you don't have all around vision I did a less than steller rejoin myself later on.
My another thought about this season racing and all incidents is that We should have qualli !!!! It will mostly sort out our lap times - and i need to say that was more fun for me fight in qualli for good position........ last track been 90% of start pos.
I liked parade lap but we can do even better to start play session room and do only qualli (no practice before) to setup starting position for the race. Then we got proper qualii and proper race.
by having a random grid it makes things more exciting, maybe if the Mini boys leant a little less and didn't hunt in packs there would be less incidents! I think we need more Camaros!!!!! Or another 50hp!
Look forward to Atlanta next week, hopefully dinner will be earlier so I can compete in both races
Yeah that is another thing cyber - i was also planning on more camaros to slow down the minis :)
Good to see you are all discussing the incidents instead of pointing fingures. It is very hard to know what to do when situations arise, we learn from the call we make and hopefully next time we are more educated about what to expect. Like pap said, collisions happen, but there is a limit to what can be avoided and examples of that would be if some one got out of shape infront of you then it makes no sense to give them a tap. Instead roll off the throttle and make a safe pass.
I tell you what those guys, i'm impressed with the racing so far. A much bettere season alround where people are really having to work for their lunch :)
I think that's why everyone kinda waited a day to really start discussing and making head and tails of it. We all know each other, enjoy racing each other and know that none of us would go out of our way to intentionally cause a mess. Emotions run high in these events w/ the tight competition, and nobody want's to jeapordize our friendships because of a hot headed comment before knowing the whole picture.
I for one like the current layout. The random grid has never bothered me, and I like the way the races always start in a timely manner w/o some of the delays we had trying to get everyone hooked up w/ connection issues (no fault of yours Tourni). Plus, everyone in the room (in our room at least) is actually in our class and is a battle for postition in the points.
Digging my own garve here but.... Maybe the agressive/defensive driving styles of the Camaro boys is causing them trouble, take it just a little slower so you have some grip left to absorb a nudge. If you kill the MINI's momentem at the apex there is no way in hell we can keep up with you down the folowing straight.
In race 2 I got passed by Antz (I tihnk, blue Camaro) comming up on the tight lefthander after the 2nd straight, I had to slow down farther then I would normaly and that loss of momentem cost me four additional places when all was said and done.
Digging my own garve here but.... Maybe the agressive/defensive driving styles of the Camaro boys is causing them trouble, take it just a little slower so you have some grip left to absorb a nudge. If you kill the MINI's momentem at the apex there is no way in hell we can keep up with you down the folowing straight.
In race 2 I got passed by Antz (I tihnk, blue Camaro) comming up on the tight lefthander after the 2nd straight, I had to slow down farther then I would normaly and that loss of momentem cost me four additional places when all was said and done.
Not sure where you're going with this.
You're saying the Camaro drivers are on the ragged edge trying to get through the corners as fast as they can, but they're going too slow, and slowing down your momentum. They should slow down more so you can hit them as you pass them, and not knock them off the track?
Not sure how much support you're gonna get on this Zeratul
Digging my own garve here but.... Maybe the agressive/defensive driving styles of the Camaro boys is causing them trouble, take it just a little slower so you have some grip left to absorb a nudge. If you kill the MINI's momentem at the apex there is no way in hell we can keep up with you down the folowing straight.
In race 2 I got passed by Antz (I tihnk, blue Camaro) comming up on the tight lefthander after the 2nd straight, I had to slow down farther then I would normaly and that loss of momentem cost me four additional places when all was said and done.
Not sure where you're going with this.
You're saying the Camaro drivers are on the ragged edge trying to get through the corners as fast as they can, but they're going too slow, and slowing down your momentum. They should slow down more so you can hit them as you pass them, and not knock them off the track?
Not sure how much support you're gonna get on this Zeratul
No Pap, exactly the other way around!
I think that if the Camaro drivers take it just a little slower and cover the apexes the Mini's will have a much harder time getting past. Use the advantages of the Camaro (Acceleration and topspeed) to exagerate the Mini's Disadvantage (must keep the momentum up), there is simply no way the mini can keep up if the two cars get out of the corner at the same speed.
I think that if the Camaro drivers take it just a little slower and cover the apexes the Mini's will have a much harder time getting past. Use the advantages of the Camaro (Acceleration and topspeed) to exagerate the Mini's Disadvantage (must keep the momentum up), there is simply no way the mini can keep up if the two cars get out of the corner at the same speed.
Ah I totally missed your meaning then. Sorry mate!
I also agree that the key to fending off the Mini's is to not miss your apex. IF the Camaro is ahead leaving a corner they should be able to create enough of a gap that there is plenty of time for them to brake, and make their turn in for the apex before the Mini sneaks on up the inside. Forcing the outside pass attempt.
I can sort of see his point, but the camaro has to work hard through the corners to maintain pace. IF they dont they the mini will drive right round the outside.
Like i said though, the match is near impossible to get right, especially when you trying to make one car quicker on straights and the other quick in corners whislt keeping both competitive.
Not going to disagree w/ you Zeratul, when under normal driving I'm getting slaughtered at RA (which is claimed to be a HP track) by 3 seconds a lap...gotta try something different. And I've noticed if I go too slow into the corner, I'll have a Mini deep braking on the curb/grass to get inside of me (that's what happened w/ me and Fitzy at the kink where I have to lift...contact and we were both off the track and lost several positions), so I'm having to try to carry enough speed into the corner to prevent the "Hail Mary" pass, but try to go slow enough to hold a tight line and try to get a drive off the corner. It's much harder than it sounds...especially when you know if they get by...they are gone.
We've only got a couple more weeks, then we should hopefully be on more level ground. I'm doing what I can to enjoy myself, but it can get tough sometimes when you know you're like a fish in a barrel. And I'm sure everyone wouldn't like it if I walked away for a couple weeks (not to mention I'm not typically the type to give up), so I'm going to tough it out and do what I can. There have been moments of brilliant racing...and times of utter defeat. It's like a roller coaster!
Guys there is a replay of me driving the camaro round Road America, it may help with your driving :)
It doesn't. Us mere mortals try to copy you and others like you and for all intended purposes we can (same gearing mostly same brakes/acceleration or basically what our skills allow) but still not as fast but thanks for trying.
Guys there is a replay of me driving the camaro round Road America, it may help with your driving :)
It doesn't. Us mere mortals try to copy you and others like you and for all intended purposes we can (same gearing mostly same brakes/acceleration or basically what our skills allow) but still not as fast but thanks for trying.
I think you hit the nail on the head there Parcells, testing for this was done with drivers that can leave us mortals like we're standing still, I think if there had been a test team from all skill levels it would have shown up that our division was going to have this problem. Maybe a shakedown race might have helped too. I know eveyone was welcome to join the testing but without a set test day/time it was too easy to let it slip and suddenly the series was upon us.
But we live and learn, maybe for the future we could put together an "official" test crew from our division that could work with Tourni and Gizzie during testing and tuning?
Guys there is a replay of me driving the camaro round Road America, it may help with your driving :)
It doesn't. Us mere mortals try to copy you and others like you and for all intended purposes we can (same gearing mostly same brakes/acceleration or basically what our skills allow) but still not as fast but thanks for trying.
I have often wondered why this is the case and never really found an answer. I have watched your driving many many times with the telemetry. You dont do any thing wrong at all, very clean, very consistent.
The main thing i do notice though is that guys like you, fitzy, zeratul, Knight are all the same in the way you drive. My suggestion would be to start trying to push the car a little harder on 1 or two corners to see if you can gain some time. What i mean by that is:
Try to brake a little later into a corner, but harder whilst still maintaining the correct line, then try to get on the power a little bit sooner to the car naturally pushes to the exit. (You dont want to push it so hard you have to lift the throttle again, but the perfect exit would be early throttle which you dont take off and that lets you reach the desired corner exit point and occasionally makes you clench haha)
You may also be missing some speed through corners - but imho this comes after you master the above. I could be off the mark here because its very difficult to see where you are loosing time without a racing session of 1on1.
Guys there is a replay of me driving the camaro round Road America, it may help with your driving :)
It doesn't. Us mere mortals try to copy you and others like you and for all intended purposes we can (same gearing mostly same brakes/acceleration or basically what our skills allow) but still not as fast but thanks for trying.
I have often wondered why this is the case and never really found an answer. I have watched your driving many many times with the telemetry. You dont do any thing wrong at all, very clean, very consistent.
The main thing i do notice though is that guys like you, fitzy, zeratul, Knight are all the same in the way you drive. My suggestion would be to start trying to push the car a little harder on 1 or two corners to see if you can gain some time. What i mean by that is:
Try to brake a little later into a corner, but harder whilst still maintaining the correct line, then try to get on the power a little bit sooner to the car naturally pushes to the exit. (You dont want to push it so hard you have to lift the throttle again, but the perfect exit would be early throttle which you dont take off and that lets you reach the desired corner exit point and occasionally makes you clench haha)
You may also be missing some speed through corners - but imho this comes after you master the above. I could be off the mark here because its very difficult to see where you are loosing time without a racing session of 1on1.
:)
I wonder if the others like me use a lot of engine braking? I am begining to come to the conclusion after a discussion with Pap about driving the Fairlady this is one of the things that is slowing me through corners as compared to the "Aliens"
I say fair play to our camero drivers, they are on the ragged edge and it does mean sometimes you don't know which way to go to avoid them...I know it must feel to you that the Mini's are ganging up on you, but as I'm sure you know we are simply involved in our own battles...sometimes quite intense. I know I have had moments when I have had a Camero driving defensivly in front of me while another mini is inches from my rear bumper...Bastek I think (nice driving mate) The problem as Tourni has said we should have been about half and half, that would have made quite a difference.
I say fair play to our camero drivers, they are on the ragged edge and it does mean sometimes you don't know which way to go to avoid them...I know it must feel to you that the Mini's are ganging up on you, but as I'm sure you know we are simply involved in our own battles...sometimes quite intense. I know I have had moments when I have had a Camero driving defensivly in front of me while another mini is inches from my rear bumper...Bastek I think (nice driving mate) The problem as Tourni has said we should have been about half and half, that would have made quite a difference.
Yep, I watched you and Fitzy swap positions a few times in my rearview. We make the best of it we can, perhaps we'll catch a bit of a break over the next couple weeks, or maybe not. As I mentioned before, there have been times where the racing has been absolutely brilliant.
I shall be hosting a room Tomorrow at 8 - 8:30 pm GMT and 10:00 - 11:00 GMT @ Road Atlanta.
True im not as fast as Tourni but I should be able give a few tips out.
It will be a mix of longer races to get used to the track then quick 2 - 3 lap races so everyone can get used to the spacing and braking distances while we are all still together in a pack.
Obviously if no one turns up I shall just be hot lapping
Sherb I will put the replay up on my SF, it is an interesting incident, I was setting up to take you on the outside to put you between myself and fitzy and parcells. We were in the middle of quite a battle. You somehow seemed to slide towards the pits and were taking me with you. I got off the throttle let you go and rejoined the three way battle when you reappeared hit the side of Parcells who hit me and spun me, hit me again and somehow we all set off again without loosing any more places.
I figured you were going to leave enough room for me to get back on the track, but I didn't see Parcells try slipping in to take advantage of the situation (not that I blame him, I probably would've been looking to do the same). That would certainly explain the contact I thought I felt as soon as I rejoined (or rather almost rejoined). I was making some split decisions as to rejoin, or throw the race away and go down pit road. Not seeing Parcells there I opted to rejoin and minimize my losses. Didn't pan out so well in the end.
We'll see you guys again next week. I'll try to bring a little less excitement next time.
LOL! - atleast you got the track right haha
Getting taken out is part of racing. Happens IRL with the pros so to expect incident free racing with a bunch of posers is unrealistic. I've spun out countless guys, and I've been spun out countless times.
When it happens several races in a row it can become a little too frustrating to take, and I will take my leave so I can cool off before I say something I'll regret.
In scheduled events like this, tension is already higher than a normal pick-up game so you have to be even more aware that accidents happen. It sucks when you practice all week for an event only to be taken out right at the start, but it's a reality of racing. Shit happens.
To be honest I thought you were away down the pit lane LOL, it's one of those things when you don't have all around vision I did a less than steller rejoin myself later on.
My another thought about this season racing and all incidents is that We should have qualli !!!! It will mostly sort out our lap times - and i need to say that was more fun for me fight in qualli for good position........ last track been 90% of start pos.
I liked parade lap but we can do even better to start play session room and do only qualli (no practice before) to setup starting position for the race. Then we got proper qualii and proper race.
Bastek couldn't disagree with you more!!!!!!!!
by having a random grid it makes things more exciting, maybe if the Mini boys leant a little less and didn't hunt in packs there would be less incidents! I think we need more Camaros!!!!! Or another 50hp!
Look forward to Atlanta next week, hopefully dinner will be earlier so I can compete in both races
P
Yeah that is another thing cyber - i was also planning on more camaros to slow down the minis :)
Good to see you are all discussing the incidents instead of pointing fingures. It is very hard to know what to do when situations arise, we learn from the call we make and hopefully next time we are more educated about what to expect. Like pap said, collisions happen, but there is a limit to what can be avoided and examples of that would be if some one got out of shape infront of you then it makes no sense to give them a tap. Instead roll off the throttle and make a safe pass.
I tell you what those guys, i'm impressed with the racing so far. A much bettere season alround where people are really having to work for their lunch :)
I think that's why everyone kinda waited a day to really start discussing and making head and tails of it. We all know each other, enjoy racing each other and know that none of us would go out of our way to intentionally cause a mess. Emotions run high in these events w/ the tight competition, and nobody want's to jeapordize our friendships because of a hot headed comment before knowing the whole picture.
I for one like the current layout. The random grid has never bothered me, and I like the way the races always start in a timely manner w/o some of the delays we had trying to get everyone hooked up w/ connection issues (no fault of yours Tourni). Plus, everyone in the room (in our room at least) is actually in our class and is a battle for postition in the points.
Thanks for the good feed back guys :)
Digging my own garve here but.... Maybe the agressive/defensive driving styles of the Camaro boys is causing them trouble, take it just a little slower so you have some grip left to absorb a nudge. If you kill the MINI's momentem at the apex there is no way in hell we can keep up with you down the folowing straight.
In race 2 I got passed by Antz (I tihnk, blue Camaro) comming up on the tight lefthander after the 2nd straight, I had to slow down farther then I would normaly and that loss of momentem cost me four additional places when all was said and done.
Not sure where you're going with this.
You're saying the Camaro drivers are on the ragged edge trying to get through the corners as fast as they can, but they're going too slow, and slowing down your momentum. They should slow down more so you can hit them as you pass them, and not knock them off the track?
Not sure how much support you're gonna get on this Zeratul
No Pap, exactly the other way around!
I think that if the Camaro drivers take it just a little slower and cover the apexes the Mini's will have a much harder time getting past. Use the advantages of the Camaro (Acceleration and topspeed) to exagerate the Mini's Disadvantage (must keep the momentum up), there is simply no way the mini can keep up if the two cars get out of the corner at the same speed.
Ah I totally missed your meaning then. Sorry mate!
I also agree that the key to fending off the Mini's is to not miss your apex. IF the Camaro is ahead leaving a corner they should be able to create enough of a gap that there is plenty of time for them to brake, and make their turn in for the apex before the Mini sneaks on up the inside. Forcing the outside pass attempt.
Miss your apex and slide wide? Game over.
I can sort of see his point, but the camaro has to work hard through the corners to maintain pace. IF they dont they the mini will drive right round the outside.
Like i said though, the match is near impossible to get right, especially when you trying to make one car quicker on straights and the other quick in corners whislt keeping both competitive.
Not going to disagree w/ you Zeratul, when under normal driving I'm getting slaughtered at RA (which is claimed to be a HP track) by 3 seconds a lap...gotta try something different. And I've noticed if I go too slow into the corner, I'll have a Mini deep braking on the curb/grass to get inside of me (that's what happened w/ me and Fitzy at the kink where I have to lift...contact and we were both off the track and lost several positions), so I'm having to try to carry enough speed into the corner to prevent the "Hail Mary" pass, but try to go slow enough to hold a tight line and try to get a drive off the corner. It's much harder than it sounds...especially when you know if they get by...they are gone.
We've only got a couple more weeks, then we should hopefully be on more level ground. I'm doing what I can to enjoy myself, but it can get tough sometimes when you know you're like a fish in a barrel. And I'm sure everyone wouldn't like it if I walked away for a couple weeks (not to mention I'm not typically the type to give up), so I'm going to tough it out and do what I can. There have been moments of brilliant racing...and times of utter defeat. It's like a roller coaster!
Guys there is a replay of me driving the camaro round Road America, it may help with your driving :)
I'm beyond help!
I'll take a peek later. Thanks.
It doesn't.
Us mere mortals try to copy you and others like you and for all intended purposes we can (same gearing mostly same brakes/acceleration or basically what our skills allow) but still not as fast but thanks for trying.
I think you hit the nail on the head there Parcells, testing for this was done with drivers that can leave us mortals like we're standing still, I think if there had been a test team from all skill levels it would have shown up that our division was going to have this problem. Maybe a shakedown race might have helped too. I know eveyone was welcome to join the testing but without a set test day/time it was too easy to let it slip and suddenly the series was upon us.
But we live and learn, maybe for the future we could put together an "official" test crew from our division that could work with Tourni and Gizzie during testing and tuning?
I have often wondered why this is the case and never really found an answer. I have watched your driving many many times with the telemetry. You dont do any thing wrong at all, very clean, very consistent.
The main thing i do notice though is that guys like you, fitzy, zeratul, Knight are all the same in the way you drive. My suggestion would be to start trying to push the car a little harder on 1 or two corners to see if you can gain some time. What i mean by that is:
Try to brake a little later into a corner, but harder whilst still maintaining the correct line, then try to get on the power a little bit sooner to the car naturally pushes to the exit. (You dont want to push it so hard you have to lift the throttle again, but the perfect exit would be early throttle which you dont take off and that lets you reach the desired corner exit point and occasionally makes you clench haha)
You may also be missing some speed through corners - but imho this comes after you master the above. I could be off the mark here because its very difficult to see where you are loosing time without a racing session of 1on1.
:)
I wonder if the others like me use a lot of engine braking? I am begining to come to the conclusion after a discussion with Pap about driving the Fairlady this is one of the things that is slowing me through corners as compared to the "Aliens"
Sherb,
I feel some special stickers coming on!
going to practice hard this week for Sunday on the hope of getting on the podium..
p.
I say fair play to our camero drivers, they are on the ragged edge and it does mean sometimes you don't know which way to go to avoid them...I know it must feel to you that the Mini's are ganging up on you, but as I'm sure you know we are simply involved in our own battles...sometimes quite intense. I know I have had moments when I have had a Camero driving defensivly in front of me while another mini is inches from my rear bumper...Bastek I think (nice driving mate) The problem as Tourni has said we should have been about half and half, that would have made quite a difference.
Yep, I watched you and Fitzy swap positions a few times in my rearview. We make the best of it we can, perhaps we'll catch a bit of a break over the next couple weeks, or maybe not. As I mentioned before, there have been times where the racing has been absolutely brilliant.
Dear Camaro and Mini drivers
I shall be hosting a room Tomorrow at 8 - 8:30 pm GMT and 10:00 - 11:00 GMT @ Road Atlanta.
True im not as fast as Tourni but I should be able give a few tips out.
It will be a mix of longer races to get used to the track then quick 2 - 3 lap races so everyone can get used to the spacing and braking distances while we are all still together in a pack.
Obviously if no one turns up I shall just be hot lapping
Cars: 117, 53, 355 under race official investigation room 1, race 2 incident.
Church,
I will be on ahead of the Fairlady cup Race. Thanks for suggsesting this.
P.
I will try and pop on as i need to set a replay for people tonight, however i'll be setting that in hotlap mode and in both cars.
I'll try to get on as well, "She who must be obeyed" allowing.