Walshy OneMoreGame Interview - Pre - MLG Columbus 2012

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#1 Thu, 03/22/2012 - 08:37
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Walshy OneMoreGame Interview - Pre - MLG Columbus 2012

The part I found interesting was between 34:50 and 47:41.

http://www.twitch.tv/onemoregametv/b/312430349

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 08:55
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Walshy would like to see Halo map's layouts to be more homogeneous between casual and competitive play. What that means to him I do not know but competitive thinkers have, in the past, been so stringently competitive in their thinking that no map suitable for casual players would be good enough for competition. This is where I personally would like to see some merging of the sandboxes. I would like to see things like speed, jumping, shields, weapon strength, weapon layout to be virtually identical between casual and competitive. I truly believe Halo's competitive footprint will improve if more people who go into normal MM comes away thinking , "hey I might be good enough for a MLG tournament". As it is now, few casual players go into the MLG playlist because it is too different from what they normally play.

 

Walshy wants to work for 343i? I've heard this before, I think. Strange way to conduct an interview for a job.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 10:14 (Reply to #2)
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DEEP_NNN wrote:

Walshy would like to see Halo map's layouts to be more homogeneous between casual and competitive play. What that means to him I do not know but competitive thinkers have, in the past, been so stringently competitive in their thinking that no map suitable for casual players would be good enough for competition. This is where I personally would like to see some merging of the sandboxes. I would like to see things like speed, jumping, shields, weapon strength, weapon layout to be virtually identical between casual and competitive. I truly believe Halo's competitive footprint will improve if more people who go into normal MM comes away thinking , "hey I might be good enough for a MLG tournament". As it is now, few casual players go into the MLG playlist because it is too different from what they normally play.

 

Walshy wants to work for 343i? I've heard this before, I think. Strange way to conduct an interview for a job.

 

I'm totally fine with that.  However, part of that gulf existed because of the battle rifle.  Starting off with SMG or assault rifle spawns are simply unacceptable.  A lower skilled player and an MLG player simply play the game differently.  Part of that is the divide that any game has, with people that are good, and people that are bad, and, hell, that simply might be the only divide.  It could just come down to repetitions and knowing how to play the maps, although not everyone is receptive to being told how to play the game they purchased.  It certainly is an interesting square to circle, but I'm with you.  Let's at least have the base characteristics the same for the two sandboxes and see what happens.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 10:50 (Reply to #3)
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Dixon_Tufar wrote:

DEEP_NNN wrote:

Walshy would like to see Halo map's layouts to be more homogeneous between casual and competitive play. What that means to him I do not know but competitive thinkers have, in the past, been so stringently competitive in their thinking that no map suitable for casual players would be good enough for competition. This is where I personally would like to see some merging of the sandboxes. I would like to see things like speed, jumping, shields, weapon strength, weapon layout to be virtually identical between casual and competitive. I truly believe Halo's competitive footprint will improve if more people who go into normal MM comes away thinking , "hey I might be good enough for a MLG tournament". As it is now, few casual players go into the MLG playlist because it is too different from what they normally play.

 

Walshy wants to work for 343i? I've heard this before, I think. Strange way to conduct an interview for a job.

 

I'm totally fine with that.  However, part of that gulf existed because of the battle rifle.  Starting off with SMG or assault rifle spawns are simply unacceptable.  A lower skilled player and an MLG player simply play the game differently.  Part of that is the divide that any game has, with people that are good, and people that are bad, and, hell, that simply might be the only divide.  It could just come down to repetitions and knowing how to play the maps, although not everyone is receptive to being told how to play the game they purchased.  It certainly is an interesting square to circle, but I'm with you.  Let's at least have the base characteristics the same for the two sandboxes and see what happens.

amen
Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:34
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I agree with the above thoughts. The only problem is no one will agree on what the "base characteristics" should be. Generally if you are  comp player you belive the characteristics should be X and if you are casual you are not use to the faster movement speed/more powerfull base traits of the br/dmr or the shield regen rate. 

 

The only way to "combine" everyone is to try to find a mix that people will agree on, WHICH WILL NEVER HAPPEN, because you have x amount of people that feel one way, y amount of people that feel the exact opposite and Z amount of people that either do not care.

 

It is kind of like politics. No one ever agrees, no one ever wins, no one ever is happy, nothing really gets done and the same discussions happy year after year, game after game, etc. etc. etc.

 

I think it is a great idea and hope that is how it ends up. But history tells me I am an idiot for having hope.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:30 (Reply to #5)
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lbsutke wrote:

I agree with the above thoughts. The only problem is no one will agree on what the "base characteristics" should be. Generally if you are  comp player you belive the characteristics should be X and if you are casual you are not use to the faster movement speed/more powerfull base traits of the br/dmr or the shield regen rate. 

 

The only way to "combine" everyone is to try to find a mix that people will agree on, WHICH WILL NEVER HAPPEN, because you have x amount of people that feel one way, y amount of people that feel the exact opposite and Z amount of people that either do not care.

 

It is kind of like politics. No one ever agrees, no one ever wins, no one ever is happy, nothing really gets done and the same discussions happy year after year, game after game, etc. etc. etc.

 

I think it is a great idea and hope that is how it ends up. But history tells me I am an idiot for having hope.

 

Where is Reach's fanatical fanbase?  They're gone.  Whatever 343 can do to hit that tipping point again and bring folks back into the fold is paramount.

 

Sidenote: great book by Malcolm Gladwell, [i]The Tipping Point[/i].

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:58
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I think it's the idea that the "base characteristics" are just bad for competitive play in Reach. Play a game of "vanilla" Reach and then play a game of MLG and they really are two different games.

Now in H3, there were some differences in settings, but it wasn't to the point the game felt totally different. MLG for H3 tended to speed up the gameplay and make for more exciting matches. The difference for Reach is that the MLG settings make the game somewhat more competitive, but overall it's really not that fun to watch - especially when comparing old videos of H2/H3 tourneys.

H4 needs to bring back those "base characteristics" that will immediately appeal to both the casual and competitive player. Appeal in a way that will make gamers excited to play and exciting to watch.

343i really has their work cut out for them. They have had a long time to prepare for this game, so let's hope they appreciate the gravity of the situation and give us a great game.

 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 15:04 (Reply to #7)
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DarthTabasco wrote:

I think it's the idea that the "base characteristics" are just bad for competitive play in Reach. Play a game of "vanilla" Reach and then play a game of MLG and they really are two different games.

Now in H3, there were some differences in settings, but it wasn't to the point the game felt totally different. MLG for H3 tended to speed up the gameplay and make for more exciting matches. The difference for Reach is that the MLG settings make the game somewhat more competitive, but overall it's really not that fun to watch - especially when comparing old videos of H2/H3 tourneys.

H4 needs to bring back those "base characteristics" that will immediately appeal to both the casual and competitive player. Appeal in a way that will make gamers excited to play and exciting to watch.

343i really has their work cut out for them. They have had a long time to prepare for this game, so let's hope they appreciate the gravity of the situation and give us a great game.

 

 

Despite the fact that Bungie is legendary, I have more faith in 343 to make these changes.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 15:18
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So what do people think about Walshy's comments about being hired by 343i?
I am not bothered by his lack of formal training but isn't it strange to talk about employment options so publicly like that. Seems a little immature or maybe it's egotistical.

He seems to be thinking along the lines of unifying the player base into a somewhat common melting pot. I'm not sure if that's what he really thinks or not.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 21:37
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I do think he wants to see a more unified player base because that will only help keep Halo in MLG. You have to consider that with him moving away from being a player and now a commentator, the more popular Halo is, the more of a "career" he can have with gaming. If he wants to keep collecting a check from Red Bull, MLG, or whomever, Halo 4 will need a very strong support from the casual players.

Also, getting the opinions of the pro players would only strengthen the game. Why not get their insight into settings and gameplay. I know it's been stated that H4 will be put through very extensive internal testing, but if they aren't getting the pros to play and comment, then they are missing out on an opportunity to get some perspectives from the best players in the world. Now am I saying he should be a permanent employee? Nah, probably not, but I would hazard a guess that if 343i extended an invite to MLG and their best players, you'd probably have a 100% show rate for those test times.  

He made a quick mention on how in Starcraft II, you have all levels playing the same game (granted in different ranks or divsions). This means the "pros" are playing the same game and same settings as the casuals. This is the happy medium we probably hope Halo 4 will hit. I am not extremely optomistic that will happen, but there is so much we do not know about H4, it's hard to make any kind of assumptions at this point.

We can only hope 343i is taking a look at some of these more successful MLG games like SC II to see how they do their rankings. Bungie tried a similar idea with The Arena, but it just fell flat because it really offered very little incentive to play.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 22:17 (Reply to #10)
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DarthTabasco wrote:

 Bungie tried a similar idea with The Arena, but it just fell flat because it really offered very little incentive to play.

 

Arena, in theory, was a great idea by Bungie.  In Halo 3, if you got your 50 you kept it unless you played whatever playlist you were a 50 in and lost it.  It didn't address the fact that some people get better over time (or worse), new people joined, people quit, etc.  Bungie addressed this by having your rank reset every month.  If you were a top caliber player, you should be able to reach Onyx every month.  I remember very few fans and players were against this idea before launch.  The majority of them loved it.  However, like you said, the incentive to play every month drizzled over time.

 

Personally, I would like to see a combination of Arena and Halo 3 ranked for Halo 4.  Instead of resetting your rank over a period of time, have your rank be 'reactive' based on number of people in the ranked playlist and your skill.  For example, have a ranked team slayer playlist and allow only 10% (or whatever they feel is acceptable) of the team slayer population reach rank 50.  Your rank can go up or down depending on how many people play TS and your skill.  If you reach rank 50 and then never play ranked TS again, you can lose your 50 because someone has a better record//trueskill rating/ect.  

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 16:12
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I have a basic understanding of SC II's ranking system and it is similar to The Arena, but it requires fewer games to be placed. The system also allows for various individual and team ranks. You could be a Diamond ranked 50 in FFA and a Gold 35 in Team Slayer with one group of friends, but play better with another group and you would be ranked higher with them. In other words, people would have differing ranks based on the party. This means no more of the better players being worried about playing with lower ranks and losing their number. They would have a certain rank with certain people they play with on a regular basis. Some parties you can be ranked higher, some parties you can be ranked lower. You can also display the ranks you would like others to see.

To deterine your division, basically I think you play 5 placement matches to determine you initial division. Then for the rest of the season you will be able to rank up or down in that division or to higher or lower divisions depending on your play. When the season concludes you only have to play one placement match to be ranked again.

The system is fairly fluid and can change based on population and skills of the players.

SC II also offers up for a more casual (social as we know it) experience by using a custom game finder. Basically at launch you would have a list of pre-determined gametypes and maps, like Team BRs on Guardian or Team Snipers on Valhalla, etc. You would select the options that are appealing and then be placed in a lobby, when the lobby is full the game starts. Each time a game is played it recieves a "vote" in the system, so the more popular a gametype or map, the more it will be available.

Players are able to submit maps and gametypes that can then be searched for by friends and strangers. This would also allow 343i to make new offerings available in a "Staff Picks" or "What's New" area. Perhaps a "What's Hot" for an up and coming gametype or map that doesn't have the votes to be considered a regular pick, but is gaining in popularity.

Anyway, I can't take credit for the above ideas. Go to [url=http://halocharts.com/forum/index.php/topic,93.0.html]THIS TOPIC[/url] on HaloCharts if you are interested in a more in-depth discussion. I actually like a lot of the ideas Kat discusses and think it would make for an appealing ranking system.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 20:01
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There's one problem: it's not going to happen.  343 is owned by Microsoft.  They're using TrueSkill for better or for worse. 

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 23:18
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A lot of the reason Halo 1 and 2 (and barely 3) were what I'm going to consider the 'pinnacle' of Halo Comp, is exactly because of what you guys have been saying. The game was no different, if at all, from standard generic (vanilla) Halo. The ability for us to hack into the way the game works freed up a lot of creativity for the population, but it also created a greater divide. Once that gap became more about the settings and trying to create what some thought to be a better game (and in some cases it was) and less about the skill gap between regular joes and MLG gods, it kinda ruined the strong community.

Halo 1 multiplayer was cobbled together in a few months, the pistol was a mistake, there was a rather small selection of maps, and I still think I have more fun playing a 10 yr old game (and now 343i's version of it) than anything else at the moment. I can only guess as to the reasons why...

343i so far have been saying the right things in regards to mp design for H4. I really hope they pull through. The site used to thrive on 'friendly' competition between clans, parties for match-making were thrown together from people all over the site, and customs were had by just about all. If you didn't like playing with vehicles, you still could have fun because the game was fun,  it doesn't feel that way currently.

 

What were we talking about again?...?...

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 00:05
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There's not gonna be a way to make everyone happy. What they're doing now is probably the best thing they can, give MLG their modes and everyone else their modes. Personally I just hope Halo 4 adds more mini games.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 08:10 (Reply to #15)
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KamakazeTaco wrote:

There's not gonna be a way to make everyone happy. What they're doing now is probably the best thing they can, give MLG their modes and everyone else their modes. Personally I just hope Halo 4 adds more mini games.

The way things are going though, there may not be MLG Halo competitions to create modes for. Perhaps MLG Columbus 2012 will show some positive signs.

In my opinion, if MLG drops Halo for any reason this season (any future season too), they loose any connection to Halo's base designs and processes. In other words, no MLG playlists, no MLG mentioned anywhere. MLG is not a game or a gametype, it's a company. If 343i makes a game good enough that people will pay to play it and see it, MLG can certainly pick it up. Until they do, there isn't a requirement for free advertising in the MM playlists.

That's not to say a similar gametype to what we have couldn't exist but it doesn't have to be named after MLG. Perhaps another company will come along and pick up Halo for online competitions.

Actually, my comments are a bit of a derail and perhaps should be started as it own topic.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 09:48 (Reply to #16)
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KamakazeTaco wrote:

There's not gonna be a way to make everyone happy. What they're doing now is probably the best thing they can, give MLG their modes and everyone else their modes. Personally I just hope Halo 4 adds more mini games.

 

If they create more time for goddamn Grifball variants and not more good, competitive maps, I'm going to strangle you.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 09:53 (Reply to #17)
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Dixon_Tufar wrote:

KamakazeTaco wrote:

There's not gonna be a way to make everyone happy. What they're doing now is probably the best thing they can, give MLG their modes and everyone else their modes. Personally I just hope Halo 4 adds more mini games.

 

If they create more time for goddamn Grifball variants and not more good, competitive maps, I'm going to strangle you.

On this rare occasion, I agree with you whole heartedly.

Damn casuals.blush How can they like that Grifball. Same goes for Living Dead?

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 20:35 (Reply to #18)
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DEEP_NNN wrote:

Dixon_Tufar wrote:

KamakazeTaco wrote:

There's not gonna be a way to make everyone happy. What they're doing now is probably the best thing they can, give MLG their modes and everyone else their modes. Personally I just hope Halo 4 adds more mini games.

 

If they create more time for goddamn Grifball variants and not more good, competitive maps, I'm going to strangle you.

On this rare occasion, I agree with you whole heartedly.

Damn casuals.blush How can they like that Grifball. Same goes for Living Dead?

 

One of us...one of us...

 

Now extrapolate this to the settings and the weapons in the game itself.  You'll be pulled over to my side eventually.  Soon, you too, will be a Halo snob.

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 20:52 (Reply to #19)
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Dixon_Tufar wrote:
Soon, you too, will be a Halo snob.

 

 

LMAO!

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 11:13 (Reply to #20)
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Dixon_Tufar wrote:

KamakazeTaco wrote:

There's not gonna be a way to make everyone happy. What they're doing now is probably the best thing they can, give MLG their modes and everyone else their modes. Personally I just hope Halo 4 adds more mini games.

 

If they create more time for goddamn Grifball variants and not more good, competitive maps, I'm going to strangle you.

[IMG]http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Phoenixfencer/Grifball.png[/IMG]

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 20:55
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Here's the crowd for Halo in Columbus in today's events: [img]http://i.imgur.com/St8VA.jpg[/img]

 

Maybe it's not dead?

Sun, 03/25/2012 - 21:05 (Reply to #22)
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Dixon_Tufar wrote:

Here's the crowd for Halo in Columbus in today's events: [img]http://i.imgur.com/St8VA.jpg[/img]

 

Maybe it's not dead?

I have to give kudos to MLG and its fans. They talked up REACH and tried to rally the fans. Those efforts and adding ZB to the MLG playlist almost tripled its MM population. Still not huge numbers but there was positive change.

343i came through with CEA maps so thanks to them too.

If MLG Columbus' numbers were good then there shouldn't be any question about it continuing for another big event.

Interesting times. In spite of that I'm still a die hard casual and not ready for the Dixon camp. wink

 

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 08:53 (Reply to #23)
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DEEP_NNN wrote:

Dixon_Tufar wrote:

Here's the crowd for Halo in Columbus in today's events: [img]http://i.imgur.com/St8VA.jpg[/img]

 

Maybe it's not dead?

I have to give kudos to MLG and its fans. They talked up REACH and tried to rally the fans. Those efforts and adding ZB to the MLG playlist almost tripled its MM population. Still not huge numbers but there was positive change.

343i came through with CEA maps so thanks to them too.

If MLG Columbus' numbers were good then there shouldn't be any question about it continuing for another big event.

Interesting times. In spite of that I'm still a die hard casual and not ready for the Dixon camp. wink

 

 

I remember when they first released zero bloom.  A bunch of Profanity got together and tried out a game.  Everyone's first reactions were "Holy shit, I can actually hit people across the map again".

Mon, 03/26/2012 - 07:20
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I was working overtime this weekend, so I watched a fair amount of the Columbus event.

I have to say Reach had a very good showing and a fair amount of support. There were some very good game series and the updated settings did help speed up the gameplay. ZB really allows for more cross-map kills and accurate shot placement. The players also stated how they really enjoy the new settings and now it feels like Halo again.

I would be very surprised if Halo isn't kept on the circuit for the remainder of the season.

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