Friendly fire?

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#1 Tue, 08/26/2014 - 08:10
OMGaLaserPewPew's picture
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Friendly fire?

My tweeter exploded last night between some people on whether H5 should have friendly fire. Halo 4 didn't have friendly fire in some playlists but did in others. Should 343 bring it back for all, some, or none in H5? Opinions? Thoughts? Rants? Ramblings? Boobs?
Tue, 08/26/2014 - 08:28
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Depends on the nature and spirit of the gametype. The most important feature for me is that it is a custom setting. I can live with it either way but I believe it should be on for the more competitive ranked playlists.

TITANFALL for example, has friendly fire turned off and for good reason. All that ordnance, area effects, map scale and relatively little team differentiation make it practical.

Tue, 08/26/2014 - 08:31
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I prefer friendly fire on in all playlists.  Some of my more memorable Halo moments are a poorly thrown plasma nade or an ill-timed rocket.

Tue, 08/26/2014 - 08:48 (Reply to #3)
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w0rm wrote:

I prefer friendly fire on in all playlists.  Some of my more memorable Halo moments are a poorly thrown plasma nade or an ill-timed rocket.

Agreed. A few memorable moments include destroying a banshee only for it to land on a couple teammates, and destroying a chopper only for one of the wheels to splatter a buddy. Also think it allows for more teamwork as you can't just fire a rocket at an enemy engaged in cqc battle with a teammate with no worry of a betrayal.
Tue, 08/26/2014 - 08:39
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Anybody who has betrayed Medic knows exactly why friendly fire should be mandatory.
Tue, 08/26/2014 - 11:20
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I hope friendly fire returns for Halo 5. I have developed some bad habits playing H4 that do not translate well when going back to the previous Halo games that do include friendly fire...lol

 

Tue, 08/26/2014 - 13:28
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I think one's take depends on what kind of party size you typically have in matchmaking.

In Halo 3, we had a full team almost every time we played. Betrayals and other griefing weren't much of an issue, so having FF on was good because you had to be more careful with your rockets and stuff.

In Reach and H4, since most of my friends quit the game and the ones that are left don't play as often, I don't usually have a full team, which means a lot more Timmies shooting me in the back all game. It happens often enough that I don't think having FF on is worth it.

Tue, 08/26/2014 - 13:54
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I didn't run into griefers and betrayers that often in Reach and 4, even playing solo, although everyone's mileage may vary.
Tue, 08/26/2014 - 16:25
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I am a griefer magnet. I hates randoms. And yet, I still prefer friendly fire. It takes more skill, adds another element to the game you have to keep in mind. Definitely agree with DEEP though, and not just on that point, I think any game mode we've become accustomed to shouldn't be "locked in" for customs, and should be optional. Don't make me hold the freakin' flag until I die, with an arrow over my head I can't even create a custom game to delete!

That being said, there's something about stealling your teammates' kills by shooting thier target through them without getting the betrayal ;)

But nowadays, it's usually 1 and 2 with the choices, the one being Infinity, which is the *only* gametype that you can't kill your friends with bullets or grenades - - unless you blow up a vehicle next to them. Or blow up their vehicle. Edit: Or run them over (See? Still plenty of ways for them shittin' griefers to mess with me in Infinity).

Tue, 08/26/2014 - 16:43
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Ironically, I like friendly fire and hate Markus.

Tue, 08/26/2014 - 16:49 (Reply to #10)
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FreynApThyr wrote:

Ironically, I like friendly fire and hate Markus.

Bazing!

Tue, 08/26/2014 - 16:59
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What Lou said. And boobs.
Tue, 08/26/2014 - 18:29
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One person called me Ded the betrayer...lol.  Never failed, when she was on my team I would lob a stickey to "help".  Never meant to do it..

FF on does add a layer of strateegery that I like even tho it does bite me in the ass.

Tue, 08/26/2014 - 19:48
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Does make for some pretty crazy film clips!!

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 09:32
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I don't think it is even a question.  We need friendly fire.  Otherwise you could just all spam grenades around each other without even worrying about it.  It is needed for strategy.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 11:12 (Reply to #15)
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Shadow wrote:

I don't think it is even a question.  We need friendly fire.  Otherwise you could just all spam grenades around each other without even worrying about it.  It is needed for strategy.

Interesting point.  Now someone explain why it makes the game better to not have friendly fire.

That even sounds snarky to me but I don''t mean it that way.  What benefit derives from not being able to shoot your teammates?  Is it just the not having to worry about griefers thing?  Because for as much complaining as it engenders, those kinds of griefers only represent a very small portion of my Halo playing experience with randoms.  And I use to play with a lot of randoms. 

And Markus.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 12:04 (Reply to #16)
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FreynApThyr wrote:

...What benefit derives from not being able to shoot your teammates?  Is it just the not having to worry about griefers thing?  Because for as much complaining as it engenders, those kinds of griefers only represent a very small portion of my Halo playing experience with randoms.  And I use to play with a lot of randoms...

I'm not sure any real reason was ever given as to why it was changed for H4. I'm sure there is some quote, somewhere about it being excluded. I guess 343 figured the game is random enough already with Infinity settings, that friendly fire would only make matters worse when Rockets, Beam Rifles, Incineration Cannons and whatever else falls from the sky.

In an effort to speed-up gameplay (in their eyes), having FF off meant we could just point and shoot with no consequences. Well, I mean no consequences as far as killing your own team...lol

Another one of those fundametals of Halo 343 just threw out in hopes it would make a better game.

 

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 14:17 (Reply to #17)
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FreynApThyr wrote:

Shadow wrote:

I don't think it is even a question.  We need friendly fire.  Otherwise you could just all spam grenades around each other without even worrying about it.  It is needed for strategy.

Interesting point.  Now someone explain why it makes the game better to not have friendly fire.

That even sounds snarky to me but I don''t mean it that way.  What benefit derives from not being able to shoot your teammates?  Is it just the not having to worry about griefers thing?  Because for as much complaining as it engenders, those kinds of griefers only represent a very small portion of my Halo playing experience with randoms.  And I use to play with a lot of randoms. 

And Markus.

Friendly fire was taken out for the same reason ordinance drops were put in. It makes the game more accessable to people who aren't normally Halo fans and it speeds up the gameplay. This way people who maybe aren't very good can feel free to chuck grenades and shoot their rockets wherever they want without fear of killing a teammate and maybe getting booted from the game. It's pretty much exactly what Shadow said, it's so you can spam grenades around each other without even worrying about strategy.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 13:08
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Just guessing a bit but I think a lot of it has to do with avoiding Betrayal booting. On one hand, Betrayal Booting is allowed for the most egregious shenanigans but it happens less often because FF is off. Guessing again, Betrayal Booting for accidental kills is probably seen as a barrier to people enjoying the game.

I generally use the default settings for BTB Infinity MM but I also turn Betrayal Booting off because it serves no good purpose to kick out friends either on purpose or by accident. I've seen both sides of jack-ass Betrayal Booting and it's best turned off for the sake of community. We do have a very diverse community and it's not unheard of for us to have total noobs in the mix with some highly skilled players.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 14:07
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FF needs to be on so that I can teamkill Bubba.  Where's the fun in not being able to shoot him in the back.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 19:31
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I certainly appreciate everyone taking time out of their day to speculate, however I should have been clearer.

What I would like is someone in favor of no friendly fire to explain to me why it's a good thing.

If you are just looking for ways to make yourself feel clever by explaining how the entire games sucks, don't bother.  I have plenty of those threads to read through if I want to.

I liked Bluestar's explanation, but we are on the same side of the argument.

The betrayal booting explanation makes sense from a developer stanpoint maybe, but were a lot of people actually getting betrayal booted a lot from pre-4 Halo?  The only time it ever really happened to me was by my "friends" and then they invited me back and laughed at me.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 02:59 (Reply to #21)
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FreynApThyr wrote:

I certainly appreciate everyone taking time out of their day to speculate, however I should have been clearer.

What I would like is someone in favor of no friendly fire to explain to me why it's a good thing.

If you are just looking for ways to make yourself feel clever by explaining how the entire games sucks, don't bother.  I have plenty of those threads to read through if I want to.

I liked Bluestar's explanation, but we are on the same side of the argument.

The betrayal booting explanation makes sense from a developer stanpoint maybe, but were a lot of people actually getting betrayal booted a lot from pre-4 Halo?  The only time it ever really happened to me was by my "friends" and then they invited me back and laughed at me.

Between all of us here we've covered why not having FF is good. Not having it in makes the game easier and more accessable to the less skilled players and/or people who play solo. Without FF these people can throw their frags and rockets around and if one of their teammates gets stuck in the head, nobody gets booted. A more accessable game means more people will play it and that's always good.

Did the betrayal booting happen a lot? No, not really. Most people realize it's a mistake, forgive it and move on rather than being down a man. But that doesn't mean the betrayals didn't happen fairly often. People run into a grenade, someone throws a grenade trying to steal a kill, someone kills a teammate who got to the power weapon first. Taking away friendly fire takes away all that stuff too which, for some people, is a good thing.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:30
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My brain hurts.

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:43
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I tried, I failed. sad

Wed, 08/27/2014 - 20:55
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Here's an unlikely thought on top of all my really superior guesses. One particular game-over gun could wreak unimaginable team killing, resulting in horrifying numbers of Betrayal Booting. MS would crunch those numbers and be unhappy about something. The Incinerator Cannon laughs at the Rocket Launcher.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 10:41
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I'm partially playing devil's advocate here, as I prefer having FF on in principle for all the reasons everyone is saying.

But playing either by myself or with 1-2 teammates for the last few years has made me empathize more with people who play MM alone or in small parties. (I can't remember where I saw it, but some years ago I saw a statistic about how most people on XBL don't belong to a community like 2o2p, OcR, TTL, etc. Most people don't play MM with a full team.) It doesn't happen every game, but griefing happens enough that I could see the rationale for 343 turning FF off. Especially considering that the kind of developers who thought Infinity Slayer and instant respawn were great ideas probably don't care much about the added nuance and strategy that comes with having to think before you shoot your rocket. So for 343, there's probably not much downside to turning FF off since they didn't care about nuance and strategy to begin with.

Thu, 08/28/2014 - 16:51
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Again, I bring to the room's attention that the majority of games in Halo 4 *do* have friendly fire. One in three games offered for voting in BTB and Team Slayer does not have friendly fire, and it is often not voted for. Every other playlist has friendly fire. Do people not notice that?

Edit: The only gametype in Halo 4 without friendly fire is Infinity Slayer.

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 07:50 (Reply to #27)
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AddiCt3d_2CHa0s wrote:

Again, I bring to the room's attention that the majority of games in Halo 4 *do* have friendly fire. One in three games offered for voting in BTB and Team Slayer does not have friendly fire, and it is often not voted for. Every other playlist has friendly fire. Do people not notice that?

Edit: The only gametype in Halo 4 without friendly fire is Infinity Slayer.

Understood, but as you stated the most populated playlists and the most popular gametypes for voting are BTB and Team Slayer. I rarely get to play anything but Infiity Slayer in these modes when it's time to vote - especially if I'm playing with randoms. The non-Infinity gametypes get very little interest - as you have stated. However, having FF in other gametypes and modes is meaningless if people don't vote for it or don't play the modes where it's featured. 

I honestly didn't know FF isn't on in playlists like CTF, SWAT, Action Sack, Snipers, etc, but it's been a while since I've played those.

Also, the Infinity gametypes are always in the first voting slot, so in the event of a tie in voting the Infinity settings always win. 

Fri, 08/29/2014 - 17:50 (Reply to #28)
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DarthTabasco wrote:

I honestly didn't know FF isn't on in playlists like CTF, SWAT, Action Sack, Snipers, etc, but it's been a while since I've played those.

Also, the Infinity gametypes are always in the first voting slot, so in the event of a tie in voting the Infinity settings always win. 

 

No, FF is in those playlists. You can kill your teammates in every gametype except Infinity.

DarthTabasco wrote:

Also, the Infinity gametypes are always in the first voting slot, so in the event of a tie in voting the Infinity settings always win. 

I'm not so sure it is in the first slot all the time any more. When I'm playing BTB and Team Slayer, we get non-Infinity more often then not, even though I am so used to my crutch of power abilities that I cry like a baby (inside) when I don't get them.

Actually, that's not true. The only thing that bothers me is how cardboard the frickin' vehicles are, and so my wheelman offeres me a teeny bit of protection by shortening how long you're pp drained for. But it makes you weaker, too.

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 13:43
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I like FF on. I think it takes a little thought and skill to play with FF on. I think with it off in Infinity Slayer it makes the game more sloppy and chaotic. 

Mon, 09/01/2014 - 21:00
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I guess I'm one of the few around here that don't like FF. It just really sucks when you're gaming with randoms and you have a teammate that is dealing damage to you. Maybe they're a jerk doing it intentionally, or just some stupid kid who doesn't know any better. In any case, it's a very bad experience for players that are victims and it can drive them away from gaming. Getting rid of FF eliminates those bad experiences and makes playing with randoms more enjoyable. I like the no FF in CoD, and I also like it in Halo 4.

 

 

 

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