Halo 4, One Year Later: What Happened?

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#1 Tue, 11/05/2013 - 18:29
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Halo 4, One Year Later: What Happened?

FyreWullf posted a one year synopsis of Halo 4. Good read. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=88715714#post88715714

Tue, 11/05/2013 - 21:22
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WOW. That was an interesting read.
Wed, 11/06/2013 - 02:52
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Don't worry, Halo 5 will be better.  Trust us.  

-343i

 

8

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 08:30
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Sounds like something we've been saying here too.  Except they're all wrong, and Halo was amazing.

Wed, 11/06/2013 - 21:02
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[img]http://gyazo.com/b0243a659139e15452f8cbe67967006d.png[/img]

 

Translation: We have no fucking clue what we are doing, and are asking for your help to give us more money to run with.  Trust us.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 11:23
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players these days want unlocks and leveling.  Halo 3, which had a great population and no notable leveling other than trueskill matching and a medal was an anomoly.  Those days are past and kids now need the CoD leveling to enjoy a FPS.  You can't close pandora's box, and Halo does not work well with the unlocks.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 12:13
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I can imagine some cool unlocks that don't change game play. Guns can have shooting attributes which must remain consistant at all times. What the gun looks like (within reason), how it acts when firing and how it sounds do not have to be the same. I.E. Your BR could be like the current standard but mine could look like a musket, sound like a Phaser and have a rainbow muzzle flash.  Fun customizations that do not change results.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 16:23 (Reply to #7)
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DEEP_NNN wrote:

I can imagine some cool unlocks that don't change game play. Guns can have shooting attributes which must remain consistant at all times. What the gun looks like (within reason), how it acts when firing and how it sounds do not have to be the same. I.E. Your BR could be like the current standard but mine could look like a musket, sound like a Phaser and have a rainbow muzzle flash.  Fun customizations that do not change results.

I'm not even talking about changing gameplay.  I'm talking about those that go for SR130 in a couple months and then say "well, I'm done now - nothing to see here"

Or those that unlock all armor and then are done.  There can't be finite goals or people don't stay.  Halo is about getting better and keeping your skill level or improving it.  When all it's about is unlocking things, then there is a finite amount of that and it gets stale.  Goals that aren't based on skill are more pointless and lead to people jumping ship.

The thing about Halo 3 is you couldn't complete it.  You could get 5 star general but once you got 50 skill it wasn't over - if you played more you might lose it.  Reach, you could get Inheritor and be done.  Sure it took a long time but then it was basically over.  Halo 4 they finally brought in the CSR numbers but you can't even see them on your 360.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 12:25
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I am a customization whore, I love playing to unlock new weapon skins, emblems, and armor sets. I think Reach had a great level system, I liked that the best.
Thu, 11/07/2013 - 17:39
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I seem to remember Bungie saying a lot of people jumped ship the moment they hit 30, 40 and 50. What ever they thought was enough. Doesn't matter whether I'm right or wrong. Personally, I don't think today's teens have it them to stay with a game for even a year to max anything out. Serve out the baubles and they will come.

Fri, 11/08/2013 - 09:42 (Reply to #10)
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DEEP_NNN wrote:

I seem to remember Bungie saying a lot of people jumped ship the moment they hit 30, 40 and 50. What ever they thought was enough. Doesn't matter whether I'm right or wrong. Personally, I don't think today's teens have it them to stay with a game for even a year to max anything out. Serve out the baubles and they will come.

They stuck it out for over 3 years with H3.  Despite the baubles in H4, almost all the population still left.  I agree with customization growing in importance (Destiny), but at the core, it's really just about the game being fun and having depth for replayability.  Baubles may help increase replay value of a game that already has those other traits, but they aren't a substitute.

Thu, 11/07/2013 - 22:51
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I havebeen playing Halo for a long time. Currently took a break. But what I see is that if your looking just to gain rank and acheivements well then yes I understand the game becomes just like any other game. I have found that if you play Halo and see beyond that you still have a learning curve. Especially when you play against other players that are better. E.G. how to use certain weapons in different situations strategy on how to take out better players out of their game. I basically think its what you make of it. The game can always been improved upon thats what these franchises are all about. There will always be room for improvement. Just my opinion

Fri, 11/08/2013 - 09:53
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Fri, 11/08/2013 - 10:41 (Reply to #13)
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Sun, 11/10/2013 - 11:49
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I read all the above and two points stick out for me. 1. is what DEEP was saying, that you can have a ton of customization and not break the game. In fact, if they planned it right it wouldn't have to stop or "max out", neither the customization nor the types of things you can work towards and rank up. but 2. is this: if your game is fun enough, people will play it regardless.

#2 should be end goal imo, but with today's gaming population you'd better flesh out #1 for all them achievement whores (no offense to all yous achievement whores ;) )

Oh yeah, and then there's #3: If they design a game based on what the vocal few are crying out for in their feedback threads, they might have a game those vocal few may like, but this does not mean they will have a game that suits the masses. They'd better have people scouring forums and such gathering gamers' opinions and complaints, because I can't get anyone to go voice their feedback on Waypoint, so that makes it clear there is a TON of stuff they just aren't hearing otherwise.

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 16:38 (Reply to #15)
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AddiCt3d_2CHa0s wrote:

I read all the above and two points stick out for me. 1. is what DEEP was saying, that you can have a ton of customization and not break the game. In fact, if they planned it right it wouldn't have to stop or "max out", neither the customization nor the types of things you can work towards and rank up. but 2. is this: if your game is fun enough, people will play it regardless.

#2 should be end goal imo, but with today's gaming population you'd better flesh out #1 for all them achievement whores (no offense to all yous achievement whores ;) )

Oh yeah, and then there's #3: If they design a game based on what the vocal few are crying out for in their feedback threads, they might have a game those vocal few may like, but this does not mean they will have a game that suits the masses. They'd better have people scouring forums and such gathering gamers' opinions and complaints, because I can't get anyone to go voice their feedback on Waypoint, so that makes it clear there is a TON of stuff they just aren't hearing otherwise.

 

The check the places on the Internet that folks gather.

Also, for what its worth, I traded in Halo 4.  I'm out.  I've been playing Ghosts pretty solidly these days.  

Sun, 11/10/2013 - 17:05 (Reply to #16)
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Dixon_Tufar wrote:

Also, for what its worth, I traded in Halo 4.  I'm out.  I've been playing Ghosts pretty solidly these days.  

Serious bummer. Now you'll miss out on all of my in-game razzing. We'll probably hook up again in TITANFALL,  Destiny or both.

Mon, 11/11/2013 - 00:20 (Reply to #17)
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DEEP_NNN wrote:

Dixon_Tufar wrote:

Also, for what its worth, I traded in Halo 4.  I'm out.  I've been playing Ghosts pretty solidly these days.  

Serious bummer. Now you'll miss out on all of my in-game razzing. We'll probably hook up again in TITANFALL,  Destiny or both.

 

Yeah, I'll be around for both.

Mon, 11/11/2013 - 11:08 (Reply to #18)
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AddiCt3d_2CHa0s wrote:

I read all the above and two points stick out for me. 1. is what DEEP was saying, that you can have a ton of customization and not break the game. In fact, if they planned it right it wouldn't have to stop or "max out", neither the customization nor the types of things you can work towards and rank up. but 2. is this: if your game is fun enough, people will play it regardless.

#2 should be end goal imo, but with today's gaming population you'd better flesh out #1 for all them achievement whores (no offense to all yous achievement whores ;) )

Oh yeah, and then there's #3: If they design a game based on what the vocal few are crying out for in their feedback threads, they might have a game those vocal few may like, but this does not mean they will have a game that suits the masses. They'd better have people scouring forums and such gathering gamers' opinions and complaints, because I can't get anyone to go voice their feedback on Waypoint, so that makes it clear there is a TON of stuff they just aren't hearing otherwise.

I'm very skeptical of 343's FPS expertise.  I really don't think they know what makes a FPS good and I also don't think they have the expertise to be able to filter out good and bad user feedback to help them get there.  I can't see Halo 5 meeting the standards of CE, 2, and 3.

After playing Halo 3 for a few weeks, I see that Halo 4 mechanics really are watered down to the point of hurting the gameplay.  4 has the new features, but core gameplay took a huge step back.  4 just isn't as challenging, rewarding, or exciting as 3.

Halo 4's map design is so lacking that I take it as a very strong indication that they just don't get FPS's.  The maps are really really bad.  They indicate a lack of understanding of basic concepts.

Gameplay and map design concepts clash, very strongly at times, again indicating they just don't get FPS's.

Yes there were new features, but the game still isn't fun.  The core game is lacking and adding AA's and ordinances on top, do little to mask that.

It's depressing, but I really can't see 5 being in the same zip code as 2 or 3.  In things that matter, Halo 4 took a step back in every way.

I've been playing 3 for weeks now and haven't looked back.  I hope 5 is good, but realistically, I can't see it happening.  There's just no way with 343's track record so far.

Thu, 11/14/2013 - 19:55 (Reply to #19)
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DCHaloJunkies wrote:

fter playing Halo 3 for a few weeks, I see that Halo 4 mechanics really are watered down to the point of hurting the gameplay.  4 has the new features, but core gameplay took a huge step back.  4 just isn't as challenging, rewarding, or exciting as 3.

Yeah they really don't get it.  The game has to have depth.  Sure perks are one way of giving people a reason to play more, but the way H<=3 did it was to make the gameplay so deep that you could always learn more.  People won't play something for days/years unless there's always something more to do/learn.  I'm sure we all remember the first time we picked up a Halo title and we couldn't even manouver around rocks and things.  Eventually you master that and then you are learning new jumps, nades, new sight lines, new ways to force spawns, how/where to carry the flag, when to drop it and fight, etc.  A lot of the H3 gameplay (setups, jumps, etc) that was standard after 3 years wasn't even known after 1 year.  It was endless and you never stopped getting better.    Moreover, everyone had their own strengths and weaknesses.  The people I played with favored the BR but other players would master the shotgun or sword or warthog or ghost or whatever.  I had a friend that was the most amazing H3 ghost driver.  I would die after a kill or two in the ghost and he would regularly get triple splatters and 25 kill sprees.  Meanwhile his BR sucked compared to mine.   It was sort of like a real life sport like basketball.  H4 is not like that.  After a a couple months it gets repetitive and you wonder why you're bothering and then you quit.

343's view seemed to be that H3's depth was bad because new players got their butts absolutely kicked and even months worth of play wouldn't catch them up in most cases because the experienced players by that time had 5 years experience and it really mattered.  What was lost on them was that that was the beauty of the game.  If it only took a few weeks to get good at chess, chess wouldn't exist as we know it today.  In a deep game beginners are supposed to get their butts kicked until they have years of practice.  I don't see anyone at 343 who gets it at all.  They think it's all about the story and making the maps pretty.

Mon, 11/11/2013 - 08:10
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Halo has never been about unlocks, baubles and trinkets. That mostly started in Reach.

Yes, we had to deal with "I can haz Recon?" in H3, but that was really the only unlock people cared about (other than the Hayabusa). 

Visual unlocks are fine. I did go for some specific unlocks in H4 - specifically the Verdant visor - but for the most part it added no enjoyment to my game nor did I really care about armor unlocks. 

I would have preferred they spent the time instead giving us a functional lobby system (see Reach) or actual ranks instead of just numbers.

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 11:45
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I want more strategy and fun vehicles with less load outs and no AAs. 

Tue, 11/19/2013 - 12:49 (Reply to #22)
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FreeRadikal wrote:

I want more strategy and fun vehicles with less load outs and no AAs. 

Always a loner FR? :)
Tue, 11/26/2013 - 10:30
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Good find Deep!  I would not have guessed the numbers given......Wow!

Thu, 11/28/2013 - 15:44
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Thu, 11/28/2013 - 15:57 (Reply to #25)
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Dixon_Tufar wrote:
http://teambeyond.net/343i-design-director-talks-halo-4-failures/
I read some/most/all of the tweets. Sounded a lot like status quo for Halo 5 with some tweaking. That's what I got from it. BE and HaloGaf are reading the context all over the place. I think I read Brad Welch saying Halo 4 population is comparing favourably with REACH. Not a great benchmark, I know, but maybe the numbers we can't see are singing a different tune than what the MM numbers are saying. Doesn't matter anyway. XB1 games were going to kick the shit out Halo 4's last 9 months anyway.

Thu, 11/28/2013 - 20:35 (Reply to #26)
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DEEP_NNN wrote:

Dixon_Tufar wrote:
http://teambeyond.net/343i-design-director-talks-halo-4-failures/
I read some/most/all of the tweets. Sounded a lot like status quo for Halo 5 with some tweaking. That's what I got from it. BE and HaloGaf are reading the context all over the place. I think I read Brad Welch saying Halo 4 population is comparing favourably with REACH. Not a great benchmark, I know, but maybe the numbers we can't see are singing a different tune than what the MM numbers are saying. Doesn't matter anyway. XB1 games were going to kick the shit out Halo 4's last 9 months anyway.

 

Yeah, its pretty safe to say that unique user numbers, from this point on, are pretty borked, especially when it comes to games released on both.  

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