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76 posts / 0 new
Last post

WHAT ABOUT SHEPHARD'S RETIREMENT HOME!?!!?!?!!

__________________

Barheet's picture
Joined: 02/08/2009
Points: 211

Heh. That sums it up.

__________________

Barheet

Barheet's picture
Joined: 02/08/2009
Points: 211

__________________

Barheet

Prof_Rockwell's picture
Joined: 02/09/2009
Points: 31
Groups: 2old4 BS

Barheet wrote:

http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/

Quote:
Imagine Frodo, dangling the One Ring, over the fiery chasm of Mt. Doom. He turns, and says, “The Ring is Mine!” and slips the One Ring onto his finger.

Suddenly he’s whisked into a universe contained inside the One Ring, an entire world trapped in the essence of the ring. He meets the Keeper of the Ring, an ethereal spirit who has dwelled within the ring since its creation and now Frodo must make the ultimate sacrifice. He has to become the ring, in order to destroy it.

How many people in the theater, watching the Lord of the Rings trilogy, would have stood up and said: “What the fuck is this shit?”

All of them, that’s how many, and do you know why? Because it introduces a new element that, by its very existence, shatters everything we, the audience, have come to understand about the world of Middle-Earth. If the Ring possesses a consciousness, why didn’t it destroy Sauron? Why is the Keeper of the Ring only now showing up when Frodo has put the Ring on before? Why does Frodo have to die to destroy it?

See throughout all three movies of Lord of the Rings we came to understand the universe, and how it worked; the rules and limits the characters were forced to work under. The Ring was a corrupting influence but could make the wearer invisible, it could only be destroyed in the fires of Mt. Doom, and Sauron created it. Suddenly introducing a new element, right at the end of the story, puts everything the audience knows into doubt including everything they enjoyed about the movie before the horrible ending came. That is exactly what happened with Mass Effect 3.

Still doesn't answer the question: Why the giant eagles that were established in the Hobbit couldn't have just flown the ring to Mt. Doom, but were somehow able to rescue Sam and Frodo after the fact?

LocGaw's picture
Joined: 08/19/2006
Points: 1299

Must resist getting involved in that ME3/LoTR analagy.

__________________

Barheet's picture
Joined: 02/08/2009
Points: 211

Yeah it's tough to compare the two because the LOTR was a book long before it was a movie. It's been so long since I've read the book that now I don't remember, but I do think it was explained in the book. 

__________________

Barheet

Barheet's picture
Joined: 02/08/2009
Points: 211

Someone please explain to me how the Reapers tried to destroy Cerberus' plans to control them, (Sanctuary) but the Star Child is perfectly ok with it. 

__________________

Barheet

FadeIntoBlack's picture
Joined: 03/24/2005
Points: 311

Barheet wrote:

 

I finished the story last night and I am stunned how short that ending was. I actually turned it off last night confused if I had something wrong and got a really bad ending. I am the kind of person that will never view spoilers before a game comes out or walkthroughs after release because I want to see and experience everything for the first time completely virginal. The video you linked here explains nearly every one of my biggest disappointments. 

This game is the culmination of a 5 year journey with Mass Effect for me. Playing the good guy in the games, working hard to make the right choices, repairing racial divides, building relationships...all destroyed in a 3 minute cutscene. This absolutely felt like the story writers reached the end and were not sure what to do to tie up all the loose ends. Either that, or whoever was responsible, hadn't followed along with the story for the first chapters. Like a novelist wrote a trilogy and his wife, who only knew the story anecdotally from stories he tells her over morning coffee, wrote the ending for it. 

I was ready for an absolutely epic ending. I didn't want to end up with Garrus on the beach...but after the shooting contest in the Citadel (where I let him win) I expected he would be a friend I would say goodbye to for example. I fully expected to say goodbye to some squad mates in the final battle but also have some bittersweet bits where the final battle was made worth it....the kind of fallen heroes type scenario. I worked to gather every resource but never even got to see what impacts those resources added.  It was just a number algorithm that had almost no impact in the game at all.

Lastly, after reviewing some other endings today and this YouTube, I am exceptionally disappointed that all the endings were exactly the same. The questions left unanswered and plot holes now opened are not how you end thingg for what is considered one of the best video game epics of all time.  No way in hell that I can see that the ending was planned this way. It felt completely tacked on to me, and the indoctrination route may have been what they were aiming for, but falls way short of hitting the mark. After how much item I spent on this series, the ending of this one is an enormous letdown. 

__________________

FadeIntoBlack's picture
Joined: 03/24/2005
Points: 311

Prof_Rockwell wrote:

Barheet wrote:

http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/

Quote:
Imagine Frodo, dangling the One Ring, over the fiery chasm of Mt. Doom. He turns, and says, “The Ring is Mine!” and slips the One Ring onto his finger.

Suddenly he’s whisked into a universe contained inside the One Ring, an entire world trapped in the essence of the ring. He meets the Keeper of the Ring, an ethereal spirit who has dwelled within the ring since its creation and now Frodo must make the ultimate sacrifice. He has to become the ring, in order to destroy it.

How many people in the theater, watching the Lord of the Rings trilogy, would have stood up and said: “What the fuck is this shit?”

All of them, that’s how many, and do you know why? Because it introduces a new element that, by its very existence, shatters everything we, the audience, have come to understand about the world of Middle-Earth. If the Ring possesses a consciousness, why didn’t it destroy Sauron? Why is the Keeper of the Ring only now showing up when Frodo has put the Ring on before? Why does Frodo have to die to destroy it?

See throughout all three movies of Lord of the Rings we came to understand the universe, and how it worked; the rules and limits the characters were forced to work under. The Ring was a corrupting influence but could make the wearer invisible, it could only be destroyed in the fires of Mt. Doom, and Sauron created it. Suddenly introducing a new element, right at the end of the story, puts everything the audience knows into doubt including everything they enjoyed about the movie before the horrible ending came. That is exactly what happened with Mass Effect 3.

Still doesn't answer the question: Why the giant eagles that were established in the Hobbit couldn't have just flown the ring to Mt. Doom, but were somehow able to rescue Sam and Frodo after the fact?

 

The only hope was to sneak in. The Eye sees all, and the Eagles (I assume) could not have escaped detection. 

__________________

Got this from a post in the Bioware forums.

 

"The Catalyst could very easily be a VI designed to interact with anyone who made it that far. EXACTLY the same as Vigil was a Prothean VI to help anyone who eventually got to Ilos. The Catalyst does not profess to be anything more or less (that I can recall) so I think assuming it was a final fail safe for any mortal on the verge of using the crucible doesn't seem far fetched. I mean, VIs are really common in the ME universe. Again, never stated, but, is it that hard to believe?

As for the conflict at the end. I agree, some of the catalyst dialog seems a little lack luster. But I can also see this dialog as being vague in the same way the Reaper dialog with Sovereign and the Reaper on Rannoch were also vague. Sovereign says they come from a plain of existence beyond Shepard's comprehension (paraphrasing), but nothing is ever explained about that. I am deeply curious about why the cycle had to be implemented in the first place. What happens if things go too far? Is it a technological singularity? Has this happened in the past, that nearly obliterated the galaxy? What could possibly be so enormous that the Reapers deem it unfathomable to organics? What if they are actually right?

What if organics carrying on the way they are (without Reaper intervention) could actually lead to some galactic catastrophy? I stated about 30 pages back one such catastrophy in the "Entropy Theory", which ultimates deals with the Heat Death of the universe(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe). That is one such event that would have galactic, and even universal consequences. Sounds like something worth creating a cycle for, anyway. But that's just an example. It could all just start with the simple building of AI, and snowball from there.

Anyway, about the idea of Shepard being alive in future ME games. I don't see how it would be a possibility from a technological standpoint of BioWare, to still be able to carry on a contextual universe, that still incorporates everyone's different choices. Imagine if Star Trek had to write two completely different universes. One where Romulans rule, and one where the Federation rules, based on people's choices. It would be a nightmare to have to create, and carry on. I think it was even a nightmare for them to do this for just these 3 Mass Effect games. I think now, they can start to build on their Sci Fi Dynasty. To do that, though, they need to finally have a piece of story that they can say is certain. The Relays are gone, the Citadel is gone. Shepard is gone. Go.

I think Mass Effect was miss interpretted as a series where your choices will eventually affect the outcome of the trilogy. I think the choices you make more or less allow you to role play, and carry forward nuances of your character. The reason I think that, is because in the face of the Reaper threat, the only way for the threat to be as real and devastating as it is, is for there to be no difference what choices you've made. Nothing you can do will stop the Reapers phyisically, and there is a reason.

Because you have developed along the path they have chosen. There was never anything you could do to win the war with the reapers because you have already followed their path. And every species in the galaxy has built their entire civilization relying on their relays, and their citadel. Every species is at a level of evolution exactly as planned. All the patterns repeat, and all the events unfold like they have for every cycle prior.

This is why I think it makes no sense for the species in the galaxy to openly welcome the use of the Reapers' Mass Relays, and the Citadel, knowing why they were created. They were created to prevent life from ever achieving anything beyond. They are basically like taking the Prime Directive, and saying, "no, screw it! You will develop how we choose you to. And anything that would have been unique to you, is now altered due to our influence"

If the Crucible were designed by the same original creators of the Reapers, as a galactic "OFF" button, then there is no reason to assume that they are detonating the same way they did when an asteroid collided with one in The Arrival DLC. The ending imagery was far to vague to assume explosions were happening. And if those were explosions, you'd probably see pieces of the galaxy shift around and morph with the sudden change in gravity and what not. I think it's safer to assume that the technology people refer to as "Space Magic" is no different than the reason Mass Relays work in the first place. No one knows how they actually work, or they would build their own. Is it also too hard to assume the relays can send shut down and deactivate messages to eachother?

Again, all of this is just my own speculation. But I feel like most people are too ready to yell about the ending, without thinking about how this really doesn't have a bad effect on the universe. It breaks my heart to see so many ME fans having such a hard time with the ending, when it is actually awesome, In theory. The presentation could use work, I grant you that.

Mass Effect 3 ended with a new cycle beginning. Shepard was the single witness and the actual catalyst of the next stage in evolution. A stage no other cycle has seen, or experienced. It's bad ass, I tell you!"

__________________

Barheet wrote:

Wow that is what it sounds like. Amazing how these PR types can say a whole lot without actually saying anything at all. 

 

So one of two things is going on: 

 

1. They really did screw up the ending and that was the way it was meant to be. 

 

 

 

It was a complete and utter rush job.  The ending (that was written in November) is just a symptom of the overall corner-cutting that Bioware displayed in a significant portion of Mass Effect 3.

Bioware has lost what it once was.  There were hints with Dragon Age II and confirmed with Mass Effect 3.  Despite saying that they listen to their customer-base and care what they think, the truth of it is that they have no idea what to do with the information they are getting from their customer-base.

In a few more years, they are going to be a cautionary tale for developers who get greedy and fail to stay true to the product they create and their customer-base.

MTK005's picture
Joined: 07/06/2005
Points: 568

Finally finished the game friday night - spent too much time playing MP and not SP - and yeah, I'm disappointed with the ending.  it wasn't bad, per se, but the games were so epic that it just felt like something was missing at the end.  I get that the three choices were cool in a sci-fi sense, but after all this time fighting to stop the Reapers, I'm not sure the end suited the story.

I'm honestly not all that upset by it, except I don't understand why Joker is flying the Normandy away from the wave, which doesn't seem to harm other alliance ships over Earth, yet damages and crashes the Normandy.  Was just a big WTF moment for me and pulled me out of the story/ending.

__________________

bunman's picture
Joined: 07/23/2007
Points: 79

Yeah,they say they" listen "but they don't "hear" what people are sayin'.

Joined: 01/17/2008
Points: 112

I played the ending all three times to see each and didn't mind them. However, they did all leave things a bit too vague for me. How could Shepard possibly be alive in the "red" choice? Like others have said, why is Joker making a dash for it? What happens to all the Systems where Relays were destroyed? Also, what's happened to Earth? There was significant numbers of species and their populations on and around it. Is everyone just stuck in that solar system? What happened to them all? Way too much left wide open. It'll be interesting to see what this new "ending" DLC will do to clear things up.

__________________

Quadricept's picture
Joined: 01/22/2011
Points: 1054
Groups: 2old2playHalo

Eesh. Finished last night nearly all Paragon. I had already lowered my expectations for the story finale, but I was really disappointed at the gameplay segments leading into it. I will never appreciate any game that ends with abondoning the gameplay you've enjoyed for so many hours, in favor of some sort of simplified(?), restricted(?)other thing.

I enjoyed the game as a whole and thought it was well done as a whole.

__________________

Crouch, and the world betrays you.

Since i generally don't over analyse the shit out of everything, movies, tv shows or video games like some people do, i found the ending to be fulfilling and complete.  The three major options were interesting, I wasn't going to pick 'control', but i stuggled with the hybrid DNA choice and the destruction but ultimately decided destruction was the path I was on thru three games so why change now.  I didn't feel the argument that they cycle of synthetic destroying organic life would continue infinitely and who am I to decide everyone should be made synthetic.  So blow the reapers up was the obvious choice for me.

I thought the father/grandfather son thing at the end was well out into the future talking about the legend of Shepard and his crew.  It worked for me.

 

__________________

 

bunman's picture
Joined: 07/23/2007
Points: 79

TANK wrote:

Since i generally don't over analyse the shit out of everything, movies, tv shows or video games like some people do, i found the ending to be fulfilling and complete.  The three major options were interesting, I wasn't going to pick 'control', but i stuggled with the hybrid DNA choice and the destruction but ultimately decided destruction was the path I was on thru three games so why change now.  I didn't feel the argument that they cycle of synthetic destroying organic life would continue infinitely and who am I to decide everyone should be made synthetic.  So blow the reapers up was the obvious choice for me.

I thought the father/grandfather son thing at the end was well out into the future talking about the legend of Shepard and his crew.  It worked for me.

 

 

Tank,didn't you think it was odd how Joker and crew were running away?The crew i had with me on the ground  when the beam hit is suddenly teleported to the Normandy when she crashes? Or that you couldn't really question the starchild?My Shepard wouldn't stand for his explanation,he would have argued with the starchild,who by the way you never hear from or about until the last minute.

The whole series is great until the last 10-15 min.

Rush job.Due to EA most likely.Everything they touch,they taint.

Ya there was a continuitiy issue there with the normandy crash landing depending on who you took with you on the final mission.  But shit you get that in TV shows and Movies too.

 

The starchild thing is this game was stupid but whatever, wouldn't be the first movie I watched where the overall premise was awesome then they threw some stupid shit in there .  The movie Abyss was one of the worst for me, it was an awesome movie until they threw all that alien shit into it.  So i jsut kinda felt that way about the whole starchild thing in ME3.  It opened up alot of problematic questions like what is the star child and how far back in history does it go, did it or its people build the reapers...  SO ya that whole thing is stupid and opens up a whole other back story that is never explained. 

 

It's stupid so i just igonore the stupid parts :)

__________________

 

bunman's picture
Joined: 07/23/2007
Points: 79

I still can't believe Bioware let this ending pass through.It's almost like they had nothing to do with the ending.surprise

Just have to wait to see if the upcoming dlc is going to be so much bullshit.

Barheet's picture
Joined: 02/08/2009
Points: 211

TANK wrote:

Since i generally don't over analyse the shit out of everything, movies, tv shows or video games like some people do, i found the ending to be fulfilling and complete. 

Oh, THAT'S my problem! Wish I had known that before I sunk literally hundreds of hours into this series. I guess I do tend to overanalyze stuff. You're right, it's a great ending. That cute little star child with his amazing explanation really gave me closure...as did Joker's death-defying flight through the Sol system to the Mass Relay. He's such a hero. He's probably the one who installed the Star Trek "beam up" machine which transported Shepard's squad mates to the ship while Shepard.....ah I think you get the point. 

__________________

Barheet

FadeIntoBlack's picture
Joined: 03/24/2005
Points: 311
__________________

SlamDance's picture
Joined: 10/21/2010
Points: 12
Groups: 2Old4Forza

I wound up writing a four-part series on my blog about my thoughts on the ending. In summary, I think the reason behind the seemingly restricted options in the ending is that BioWare never really let you interact with the idea of the galaxy's dependence on the Reaper cycle.

http://www.robf.com.au/2012/04/16/why-mass-effects-fans-are-wrong-about-...

http://www.robf.com.au/2012/04/18/why-mass-effect-3%e2%80%b2s-fans-are-w...

http://www.robf.com.au/2012/04/20/why-mass-effect-3%e2%80%b2s-fans-are-w...

http://www.robf.com.au/2012/04/23/why-mass-effect-3%e2%80%b2s-fans-are-w...

__________________

Barheet's picture
Joined: 02/08/2009
Points: 211

Honestly, I don't care about their free DLC add-on to the ending. I believe I made a mistake buying the game new, a mistake I won't repeat. Also, I will no longer listen to critic reviews. The fan reviews are what I'm after. They're the ones who tell the truth and actually care about the series. Preorders? Done with those. ME3 is already down to $30 in some places and it's still April. I already don't purchase any DLC at full price. They always have a half off sale at some point, so that's my plan there. 

Live and learn. Bioware got me on DA2 and ME3, but they won't get me again. 

__________________

Barheet

Joined: 04/10/2012
Points: 101
Groups: None

Just finished SP last week or so myself and here are some random thoughts I had about it.

1)  To me, the ending just reeked too much of a BSG 'start the cycle anew' and we saw how well that worked for them.

2)  From a meta-perspective, this is how you kill a game franchise.  They didn't have to do ANYTHING fancy with this ending.  Get to the citadel, push the button (sans the Deux Ex Machina 'Starchild'), Shepard lives/dies (if you like) taking out the Reapers, and then you have rich universe in place for people to imagine what happens next in a universe without a Reaper death sentence.  Did you save the Krogan from the genophage?  What will their thirst for revenge mean for the galaxy post-reaper?  What place will the Geth take?  What about the Rachni?  This decision closes all those doors and trivializes the agony the player felt at making tough choices like sacrificing Mordin to cure the genophage, or sparing the Rachni, or siding with the Geth.

Instead, with this ending, I just don't see a way that you can continue telling stories in the ME universe that will be credible without seeming to be hand-wavey space magic.  This is how you end a story when you want to say 'I've told all the stories I care to in this universe, time to move on to something else'.

3)  The ending defies genre conventions, but not in a good way.  You just simply can't create a heroic saga with a character that your fans invest themselves emotionally in, and then make it all look like it doesn't matter.  Of course people are going to be betrayed.  Of course people are going to react negatively to the god machine Starchild who deigns to give you a choice that isn't a choice.  Nobody wants to feel like the ending comes down to the whim of an entity who, one moment, is convinced on the morality of its course for controlling chaos, but then in the next decides 'Oh, what the heck.  You worked so hard to get here, I guess I better give you something.  Anywayz, I'm bored, so pick your explodey color.'

4)  If you're going to do a crazy, 'it was indoctrination all along', you absolutely have to do a quick montage of scenes at the end to support that explanation so that your audience believes that was a governing part of the story all along.  The Sixth Sense, Memento, The Machinist...great examples of this kind of story telling.  Book of Eli...example of bad version of this storytelling.  This, of course, is predicated on the belief that the Indoctrination Theory is true....which I don't buy for a moment.

 

So, even though I've bashed on it a bit, I think the ending was just OK.  Would I go back to an ME4?  I don't know.  Like others have said, I liked 99% of the game, so I think I'd give it a chance.  But man, screwing up a 'gimme' ending....that's rough.